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Race: Mulatto&#13;
Magnolia Cemetery</text>
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637 North Thomas Avenue&#13;
Prichard, Alabama</text>
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              <text>Jackson:	Right.  When you think back to childhood days, what are some key events, key things that have happened in your memory that kind of define the neighborhood and define the time or the place?&#13;
&#13;
Mani:        	Good question.  That’s a good question.  I really can’t think of any outstanding incidents that was defined other than the neighborhood was more of a how you say a community type neighborhood.  There was a lot of brotherhood, love and sharing.  Used to go to the neighbor borrow a cup of sugar.  The neighbor would come to you and borrow a cup of flour.  You know.  If you did something wrong and you saw, the neighbor had the authority from your parents to whoop your butt.  And you tell your parents, the parents whoop you again most likely.  You know.  There was a lot of…the African proverb about the village is responsible for raising a child, the entire village is responsible for raising a child. I guess that would be my most distinct memory of the Black community in Prichard when I was coming up.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Can you… do you have some sense of when things in your estimation changed?&#13;
&#13;
Mani:        	Well you know you have to say that many of the changes began when you start talking about desegregation.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Okay.&#13;
&#13;
Mani:        	You know.  The intents of desegregation was real good.  It’s noble, honorable.  The end results didn’t quite add up or measure up to what the intent started out to be.  With desegregation, we wind up seeing Black kids bussed from our neighborhood to other neighborhoods you know.  You wind up seeing Black schools that were high schools like Central…&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	County.&#13;
&#13;
Mani:        	I’m going to that but I’m trying to think of the word for these ___ Central and County that were hallmark Black schools in our community.  That our parents and there parents had went to school there.  You know it’s kind of like institutions in our community.  They were closed you know.  And those kids that went to those high schools were bussed somewhere else.  Unfortunately, many Black teachers became unemployed.  Many Black principals became unemployed.  Got lost in the shuffle.  Many people left town during that gap.  If I had to think of a turning point educationally in the Black community when we start talking about desegregating and bussing kids from one neighborhood to he other.  And you know there is a distinct cultural difference you know in young Black kids and young white kids you know.  And when you got white teachers coming out of white neighborhoods they kind of understand the distinct contradiction between a white kid.  Pretty much the same music they like pretty much.  The same cultural things they get involved and they like.  And then with the Black teacher kind of like the same thing.  She can tune in on a Black kid because you know she got this kind of like soul sisters and brothers.  That’s were the word “soul” came from.  My soul brother mean that we brought through the same experience.  Know what I mean.  Just like if you Black you can go out there and be confronted by the police for no reason.  No matter how much money you got in your pocket you can go out there and be confronted by the police or be confronted with racism for no reason.  That will make us be brothers of the same experience.  Soul brothers.  And I kind of feel like desegregation kind of got lost in the shuffle with all its good intents through integration.  You know.  Know when I think we were arguing for equal justice my idea of equal justice would be bringing the standards up to where they should be.  But many Black leaders at that time felt that equal justice means integrating everything, not just some things but everything.  And I don’t think everything should be integrated.  And right now where you go to school got a Black and white, mixed.  Blacks and whites get along fine.  But at a given time in a day, at lunch time for example.  All the white kids, most the white kids go sit with the white kids, most of the Black kids go sit with the Black kids.  They mingle fine.  Get along as friends many times.  But the distinct difference is they branch off to there own kind to talk about things that each other are familiar with.  You know there was time when they were testing people in New York and the Black people complained about the test they we’re being subject to.  And one of the brothers pointed out that if you take some kids from New York and give his a test on the country, the gone most likely do poorly on that test compared to a kid from the country taking that same test.  If you take the kid from the country give his a test on the city like subways, et cetera et cetera, he’ll probably do poorly as opposed to testing the kid from New York.  So you saying that in that statement is that if you have an instructor that can relate to the cultural background of a child, his or her chance of communicating with that kid is better. &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	When you were coming up through Blount and going to school and everything when did you, I assume this during a major part of the civil rights struggle, when did you become in Prichard like politically aware of all these things.  It sounded like your granddaddy had already turned you on to all that stuff all along. &#13;
&#13;
Mani:        	Yeah.  There was a subconscious knowledge about certain things.  &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Like what?&#13;
&#13;
Mani:        	About being a Black man.  There was a set of rules different when it came down to dealing with Black people as opposed to white people.  Knowing that being in the Black community that there was certain sense of safety as opposed to branching out from the Black community.  At that time, see Prichard Mall was predominately white.  Everybody living around the Prichard Mall at that time were white people.  Blacks lived further off over on off Main Street by Blount High School and concentrated around that area around in there.  But when you went to the mall, you had to be running through that mall, you know what I mean. ‘Cause those jokers be at you.  Those white kids be at you.  And ‘cause there was… Jim Crow was the order of the day then.  You know Blacks had a place they had to stay in and the propaganda of Jim Crowism made a lot of seemingly good white people believe by that garbage that Blacks were inferior, that Blacks were monkeys, we had tails and you couldn’t trust none of us cause all of us were theives and that same premise still lives with us today, you know.  But that was a sense of safety in the Black community at that time.  Not necessarily from the white area or outside area but a safety from not feeling from your brother or a sister.  A safety you don’t feel now because if we walk out , I walk out my door now, it won’t be anybody which might look like me and so that white sticking me up, you know what I mean.  Its got the stick up man and what the big difference is from then and now is.  That sense of safety that we feel around our own people is gone.  And it’s kind of like when Hitler ruled Germany, he ruled Germany through fear and paranoia.  The husband couldn’t trust the wife, the momma couldn’t trust the son, the son couldn’t trust the daddy, they couldn’t trust the children, you know what I mean because Hitler had put so many paranoia and fear and trusting one another among the populous and that’s how you rule and control.  And it’s kind of like the system has us now.  We have so much paranoia with one another you don’t know who to trust.  Solid guys walk up to you, you know, “Hey what’s man?”  And you look at ‘em… He may not be as solid as he looks.  &#13;
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              <text>Mani: And I guess about two months later, I made parole.  And when I made parole we started a lil organization called Keep the Community Hall.  It was on Davis Avenue then.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Keep The Community who?&#13;
&#13;
Mani:        	Keep the Community Hall.  H-A-L-L.  &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Where on Davis Avenue?&#13;
&#13;
Mani:        	Right where Stewart Memorial Church is now.  &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Yeah, yeah, yeah. &#13;
&#13;
Mani:        	Used to be a barber shop, Nobles.  Mr. Nobles was a midget, had a little barber shop on the Avenue.  It was a lil complex right there.  Lil 3 or 4 complex, barber shop and our community hall was on the end there.  And they torn it down and put Stewart Memorial Church there.  On the corner of Davis Avenue and Ann Street.  Ann run right into it.  You know.  And we was kind of like a community based group that dealt with teaching karate or teaching culture.  Free lunch program, had the lunch, free food program.  Kind of like patterned after the Black Panthers Party in California at that time, you know.  And Vincent Woods was our chairman.  Good guy, he eventually tripped out and kind of you know, things got so rough for him and I guess he kind of broke down a little bit, you know, lost his self for a while.  He’d just walk around, you know.  And he’s come back, he’s come back.  After years, he’s come back in the last five or six years, he’s come back to his self.  But he was our chairman at the time.  Think we were about sixteen guys strong and we had a little dance troupe called the Liberation Players.  A group of teenage dancers who did African… A guy named Shinny and Lorenzo who taught skit and dances.  African skits and dances.  Both of them were homosexuals by the way.  But they were good soldiers had a real good perspective on life.  Never tried to bring their lifestyle to the kids and they were real, real good soldiers.  And last time we went anywhere, we went to Selma.  Hank Sanders and Rose Sanders invited us to Selma and we took the kids there to perform.  I guess it was like ’75 or ’76 something like that.  You know.  And then we moved from… That’s when the incident we talking about the police begin to happen.  You know the hangings and it was me.  One of the officers had beat up Dino, had beat up Dino’s daddy. Dino was sergeant-at-arms in the organization and he kept the order in the meetings and they had beat up Dino’s dad real bad and the officer’s name was Roy Adams.  So we got a petition together to have Roy Adams moved off Davis Avenue.  So we took the petition down, had him transferred somewhere else.  And this night in question, he stopped Secu and I and my oldest girl, she was like about three months at the time and her mom.  They’ve since moved to Chicago.  They lived in Chicago since that point to now, pretty much, you know other than coming down here to visit during the summer time.  But Roy Adams stopped us that night.  When he saw us he stopped “Uh, huh.  What y’all doing over here?”  “Minding our own business.”  One  word lead to another, you know. And he started trying to get rough you know so.  One thing lead to another you know.  … so I ran that way, Secu ran that way.  And we were thinking like, he just gone about his business, you know.  One of those incidents.  But before we knowed anything, they had kind of like cornered off the entire area like they are really looking for some killers, you know.  Somebody who had some murder cases and so they eventually found me in one of the vacant buildings. &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Where was that at?&#13;
&#13;
Mani:        	Right behind Conti Street.  The street that runs behind McDonalds.  I think we were like two blocks down from McDonalds.  We had went to visit, Barbara, my oldest girl’s mother brother was at in Louisiana at one of the colleges then and he played baseball and he was here.  And he was staying with one of their kin people who lived down in that general area and we had just left their house.  And the… we was in her daddy’s Chevrolet, a beige Chevrolet, an old Chevrolet.  We always had trouble with the battery.  The cable in it was loose.  And we were trying to get a jump off, that’s what it was, we were trying to get a jump off when he pulled up.  Yeah, what’s the problem?  Need a jump off.  And that’s how one thing lead to another.  You know.  And so he brought us.  He took Secu back to the car.  And they took me to a tree.  Now the car is like, the tree is like parallel to the car like a “L”.  They’re parked in front of the sidewalk sort of and the tree is like right here.  So they can see what’s going on.  And the guy said, “Niggers like you don’t live in this neighborhood.  And get a tree, get a rope and let’s hang this nigger.”  And I'm just thanking he was just talking you know.  And we need all nigger babies to the alligators.  You know.  And they took me and walked me to the tree away from the car.  The boy came back with a rope man wit a noose already in it.  They threw it up in the tree and I’m talking noise you know.  I guess I was making em more angry ‘cause I’m talking noise, like I got a army too, you know.  And threw the rope in the tree and took the rope around my neck, two or three of em holding me like this, handcuffs behind my back and to the point where I’m on my tiptoes.  And I could feel it cutting my air circulation off.  And then everything got quiet and my daughter’s momma said plain clothed detectives had came on the scene.  And pretty much told him, we’n hanging niggers tonight.  Take em on down and book em for robbery.  And they took Secu and I down and put us in a line up and they picked me out.  Now he and I were supposed to had committed robbery together but three nights ago, four nights before this incident and they picked me out and didn’t pick him out.  And but I was the only one in the lineup that had blood, had blood all over me from where they, I don’t know, I think I had on Black and white shirt, it was white in the front.  You know, and I had dirt all in my hair from being up under the house, you know.  And so I looked like somebody who had just been apprehended to make a long story short.  And so he had, they got the manager to say it was me but they couldn’t get the assistant manager and one of the workers to say it was me.  You know.  So, they had the white manager to say it was me but the white assistant manager and the Black worker said it wasn’t me.  &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	What store was that they said you robbed?&#13;
&#13;
Mani:        	It was a Church’s, it was a Hart’s Chicken on Dauphin Island Parkway.  You know.  And so I called the lawyer who was representing our organization at that time.  His name was Clinton Brown.  And I called Clinton ….  I said, “and they tried to hang me man.”  “Come on kids man, come on now.   I said, come down here, you’ll see rope burns around my neck.”  Clinton came down and he saw rope burns around my neck and then things begin to snowball from there.  He contacted the FBI.  Told the FBI he had seen the rope burns around my neck, the FBI came, saw it for themselves, they investigated the police vehicles that was on the scene that night.  And found the rope still in the trunk of the patrolmen car.  And when the found the rope in Officer Brown, one of the young officers, he just rolled over and started telling on everybody.  From that they wind up indicted five of the officers, Wilbur Williams who ran for sheriff here recently, Vernon Strong, it’s been a long time since I… But those two names always stick in my head.  Ronnie Patrick who took the fall.  He was a fall guy.  They said, he was the one who put the rope around my neck.  And he was the only one who wind up getting kicked off the force.  The rest of the guys wind up being promoted and moved up in ranks.  They threw the charge out against me.  We sued the city, you know, punitive damages.  And about three years later, I think we settled for something like about 65, $75000, somewhere in the neighborhood.  But all those guys are still on the force except Patrick.  Patrick took the weight said he was the one who initiated everything.  It was his idea.  Charlie Braddick was district attorney then.  I thought he was their attorney.  The district attorney.  And he got in there and ramped and raved about the officers are really good officers.  Guys are playing dual roles or something. First he told my lawyer to tell me I shouldn’t come to court dressed so clean.  We wear a shirt and tie everyday.  I said, “Why?”  I got to impress and they want me to come looking like a thug rather than coming looking like somebody with intelligence, you know.  Not necessarily a shirt and tie give you that intelligent look but you can recognize uniforms.  Police uniforms, shirt and tie is uniform.  Anyway the guys got exonerated.  All of them got exonerated.  And I think they disciplined Patrick, they kicked him off the force.  So, we moved Community Hall from the Avenue after they bought that property and we moved it to Hiway 45 right across from Moody’s restaurant.  Nick Solomon had a TV repair shop there. &#13;
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2311 Costarides Street &#13;
Mobile, Alabama  </text>
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              <text>Jackson:	Yeah, let’s talk a little bit about that.  About what, what the Beacon has done.  First of all, how’d the Beacon get it's name, Beacon?&#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	Well, you know, beacon stands for light.  It was his vision to, to, to have a light he says “a light.”  You know, we have our logo, our slogan is “the light that never fails.”  Because this paper has been in existence 56 years and a few months as of June 1, 2000.  We’ll be 57 years.  And we never missed an issue no matter what the, what the conflict.  We never, never missed an issue of the paper.  So that’s one of our great accomplishments, we’ve never, we’ve always been able to come out.  And I envision us as always coming out as long as we are in existence.  Or as long as we, we maintain to keep our paper.  &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	What’s the circulation now here in Mobile of the Beacon?&#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	The circulation in Mobile is about 5,000.  We have 7,000 circulation but within that Mobile area, see we mail papers all over the United States.  &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Okay.  &#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	And we have, we have a higher, we have a good bit of circulation.  Actually it’s a little bit more than that because we mail, we mail out more than 3,000 papers a week.  Than, you know, you have to count a lot of comps that you give away.  So, well after you keep adding up and adding up ah, the circulation goes up.  So, I think out circulation right now fluctuates between 8 and 10,000.  But we have 5 actually paid here in the city and I’m going on paid.  Not on…&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Right, right.&#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	I talked paid, paid because that’s what your survival is what you get money for.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Now just going back to what you were saying earlier about what, what the Beacon has done since you took it over and and when your, your daddy and your momma in they heyday with it historically for Mobile, Black Mobile, Mobile in general, if you can comment on that. &#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	Well, I think, I think that we have been access, a great access, asset to Mobile because of the fact that we helped the elected officials that you have in office right now, the Black folks, we have been very instrumental in helping them get elected to these positions.  People read and they look forward to what they see.  And as we promote those people for election and help to get them elected that our community look at TV and and buy the daily paper.  But you have people who are supportive of looking to see what’s in here.  They look to see if, if that person is in here.   And ah, we have always wanted to promote human, a great human relationship between us and the bar between the races and I think that the paper has been instrumental in those ways.  I should hope so anyway but I’m very, I feel very favorable that we have done that.  We’ve had a impact on that within our community.  You got a comment on that, Mrs. Thomas?&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	Ah, yes.  I will.  I don’t know exactly what’s been said.  I don’t intend to repeat but now…&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	That’s alright.  Don’t worry.&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	… your Black, our Black newspapers in the state of Alabama has helped the whole state to change because we have sponsored which I’ve told a lot of people.  My daughter thank I talk to much when I get on voter registration.  Cause that has been our pet piece.  Not only the Beacon but the whole state of Alabama where ever there is a newspaper.  Okay, what we formed during the other general election time.  And no more do we have it because people don’t show interest.  It’s sad but it’s true.  Okay, we would form a motorcade to my… Say, not every not indicate in the motorcade abut every county in Alabama through our newspapers have had representation in Birmingham.  We selected Birmingham cause it was a central location, we felt in Alabama.  Those coming from North Alabama, from South Alabama, east and west.  Everybody would meet in Birmingham the Sunday before the election on Tuesday for general election.  That’s right.  We would have 2 and 3 buses leaving Mobile.  Newspaper got the publicity out.  The newspaper helped get the people on the busses.  You understand what I mean.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Yes, I understand.  &#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	And they were there.  Birmingham, the Black folks took Birmingham that Sunday before election.  We would leave Mobile at 3 to 4 o’clock then on Sun, that Sunday morning.  We took Sunday for it cause most folks were off on Sunday that could take off.  And we would leave Mobile at 4 o’clock or 3 o’clock what ever time is was set.  And they would come from all direction into Birmingham.  And I mean every county had a bus coming in.  Nobody came in cars.  I don’t, not nobody, but nobody depend on cars to get everybody to Birmingham. &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Right, right.&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	And we would go into Birmingham on Sunday morning.  Get in there time enough for all the meeting start at 9 o’clock.  And we would be in meeting all day.  We only broke for lunch.  And we had lunch right where the meeting were.  In the central location where our meetings were.  And we would stay there to maybe 5 or 6 o’clock at night to check candidates.  Everybody from a county brought their candidates and discussed how they felt about those candidates.  &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Right, right.&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	And at the end of the day just fore the day ended, they would have committees who’d check, were checking on this information that had been gathered.  And we would say we goin vote on the lesser of the evil.  Cause all of em were evil.  We felt that none of em were perfect where Black folks concern.  And they was, we would select the person we would vote on in Tuscaloosa County, Greene County, Hale County, cause all these counties were in our section.  Mobile or Dallas County whatever.  And they would select that, the best person of the evils or they….  That’s the way they, we used that term.  And everybody would go back home and vote for that person.  If he was a state candidate, he got all the Black votes over the state.  Therefore, you could put the person that you wanted to vote in and that’s what we did.  And that’s how so many things changed in Alabama.  But a lot of things has not changed, I’ll tell you that for sure. &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Like what?&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	Well most of time, we get bad folks in office regardless to how you vote.  Because some of our Black folks go back home and still don’t vote.  And they still don’t be concerned of what those committees brought back to them from that meeting in Birmingham.  If it’s not their friend and somebody had paid them a few dollars, a lot of times they would vote for em, for that evil person we would say.  But as the time went on and you educated them more.  Cause we had a voter registration, where we educated those folks how to vote.  That meeting helped but you got to educate their brain so they can think right.  And that’s what really did.   Cause George Wallace when she, she had, we’d have an editorial this week on it.  He told, came to the our office down on Cedar,  I never will forget that day.  George Wallace who was our governor, who ran for the president of the United States if you remember, you probably…&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Yes, ma’am I remember.&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	You probably too young to remember.  Maybe you read something about.  [Laughter]&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	I read about it.&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	Okay George Wallace came to our office the next day after the election.  He had lost that year.  He said, “Mr. Thomas, I wanna tell you something.”  Frank said, “What is it, George?”  He said, “I lost this time but I’ma tell you something.  I’m going to win next time.”  He said, “Well, you goon next time when you lost this time.”  “Because I was depending on the Black votes.  I didn’t get the Black votes like I thought I was goon get. But y’all don’t have enough votes to put me in no how.  So next to run, I’m running and I’m goon win.”  He did.  He won the next time.  He told my husband, “It’s too many of the Klans, we got too many Klans in Alabama.  I’m goon get the Klan vote next year.”  And he got em and he won.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	He said that to your husband. &#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	Sure.  That’s what I’m telling you.  He said it and he won.  But he was thinking.  He was right.  He said, “But remember, I have a lot plans that I’ll do to help Blacks but I can’t help when I’m on the outside.  I’m on get in there and I’m on do it.  Then, I can do some of these things.”  &#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	So, in other words, he was saying, am I interpreting right…&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Go ahead, interpret.&#13;
Blackmon:	He was saying that, you know, he wasn’t favoring the Klan so they didn’t, they didn’t…&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	Vote for him.&#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	…give him any votes.  He wasn’t against, he wasn’t against the Blacks as, as, as it is seemed in history. &#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	Uh, huh.  That’s right. &#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	Ah, and is written in history.  But he had to go with the majority not the minority in order to get into office.  Is that what he was saying?&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	That’s what he was, that’s what he meant.  Uh, huh.  And he got it.  And he did a lot.  See people don’t give Wallace credit for a lot of things he did.  He changed the educational system.  He helped that in Alabama.  And he did a lot of things that people don’t know Wallace did.  &#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	Didn’t the community colleges become existent under his administration?&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	Under his administration.  He sure did.  So, he did a lot of things.  And he told em that he was goon stand in the university door to keep it from it being integrated.  But he didn’t mean it that way.  He stood in the door and then walked right on out.  He said, he did what he said. &#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	He stood in the door because he had in the door because that’s the White folks…&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	He said he was goon do.&#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	… expected him to do.  &#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	The White folks and the main thing those Klans.  See the Klans wanted, he was doing that to get by the Klan cause he had promised the the Klan that he was goon stand in the door.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Tell me this cause I wanna know.  Was there ever any Klan in Mobile, Alabama?&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	Yes, sir.  [Laughter]  They in there, in here now, you don’t know their living here.  &#13;
&#13;
Blackmon:	We still living here too.&#13;
&#13;
Thomas:	Yes, sir.  They here. [Laughter]  You better…&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	You talk about educating folks and making people literate of things like voting, it’s almost as if we, we have a slight miseducation issue here because people are assuming the Klan and like-minded folks are no longer in existence.  &#13;
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              <text>1st Interview Transcription:&#13;
&#13;
Jackson: When you walked into your own classroom that first time, do you remember that day? Or do you remember that year or that time? &#13;
&#13;
Lewis: Not my first classroom, I really don’t remember that. I tell you this, I know it wasn’t a frightening thing because I had been used to teaching. Before I finished college, before I finished high school, we used to, at Dunbar when your teachers would be out, you know they didn’t have sick leave like they have now, well they would get some of the students to hold their classes, and in the Spring when they would go to the association meeting in Montgomery, we would hold their classes and school work correcting papers, fixing the register report, I had done that when I was in the 4th and 5th grade for my mother. So it really you know wasn’t anything new in a way, but I loved teaching though. Jackson: Really? Lewis: I did until it got so rough. Now the first time experiencing a classroom that I can tell you that I can remember, was my first day at Vigor High School. I was sent over there from Mobile County Training School during the desegregation era. And I was the first Black one that went over there. First Black woman and Randolph Thrower came from Blount. So it was just the 2 of us and I didn’t want to go, and I went to Superintendent____, he said if you had any questions…. See school opened Tuesday, and I got a registered letter Friday, uh huh to go. Saturday evening at that. &#13;
&#13;
Jackson: 4 days, 3 days. &#13;
&#13;
Lewis: Uh huh, no school day because it was a holiday that Monday, so I went to Superintendent in his office that Monday morning, and I got there, there were about 20 people there. When I gave the secretary my name, she ushered me right on in. I say well now, this is strange you know. So Herb Pope was superintendent, assistant at that time. So he wanted to know what was my complaint, so I told him, I said, “ I have been teaching, I have an elementary certificate that certifies me to teach from grades 1 through 9 and I've been at Mobile County Training School and I been teaching 9th grade English for the last 11years and Vigor is a senior high school, grades 10 through the 12th.” He said, “Well if you can teach 9th grade English, you can teach 12th grade English or you can go home and sit up.” Then the interview was over. So I got in a house and a car so I got to, I can't go home. So I went to Vigor, and I had met I had you know, I didn’t know what to expect. I don’t think they knew what to expect either because out on the hall where we were, the first 3 days we were there, the three, four football coaches, two each, to a class. They control the halls, all day. So the 4th day I went down to get my manuals, my books and they weren't there, they didn’t come that day you know in the hall so they were giving out books. So I ask them, I say, “where were you today, I missed you, I didn’t see you?” “Well we thought you knew what you were doing, we didn’t need to come down there.” Those were the kind of things that you met you know. But I say this, the kids were nice, they were really nice, most of them with the exception, to me of one or two. Now there might have been more, I knew there were more but, to me. &#13;
&#13;
Jackson: No more difficult children than you would normally have. &#13;
&#13;
Lewis: No, um umm. But you handle them in a different way. Now they acted you know, quiet at first you know, I guess they were weighing me out and I'm weighing them out, so I told them in the beginning you know, I didn’t know what they thought. But I hadn’t asked to come over there and I'm sure they hadn’t sent for, but we are here together and I'm going to stay and we gonna make the best of it. And I'm going to do my part and I expect you to do yours. And I really, I never had any trouble. I stayed over there 3 years.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson: No kidding? &#13;
&#13;
Lewis: Uh uhh. The only thing that happened one time, just before Christmas a little boy, he was passing a note and so I said read ___, so I called his name I forget his name, he was white, his name was _____. I said, “Let’s share the note you know, bring it up here so we can all have a good laugh.” And it was this poem about Black Christmas, you know, I don’t know if you ever saw one or not. It was about ___ this year you can't sing White Christmas and you got to have Chocolate ice cream as well as Vanilla, it was a whole lot of little things like that on it and so I had him to read it. “Uh huh, read it out loud so we can all hear it you know and we won’t waste time passing it from one to the other.” And he didn’t write that so I didn’t have any more trouble, not a bit and Christmas at the end of the year, the gifts, the gifts, the gifts. They gave me a hard schedule, I didn’t mind it. I had a homeroom, I had 2 regular 11th grade classes in English. I had 2 remedial classes of 12th grade English, and a 10th grade remedial class. 10th grade with all the dumb football players in it and see they had 4 Black, 6 Black football players. They gave them all to me. &#13;
&#13;
Jackson: Then you worked with them. &#13;
&#13;
Lewis: Um hmm, the 12th graders, some had been there 3 or 4 years in the 12th grade. Could barely write their names.</text>
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&#13;
Jackson: Mobile, particularly Black Mobile is a more literate place than when your father came here. Had there been any key moments in Black Mobile history that you can point to and say you know, this was an important for good or for bad, for the literacy rate changing. This moment here was crucial. &#13;
&#13;
Lewis: Oh if anything I would say, desegregation of the schools here changed literacy rate for the worse. It had some good points, but what happened it wasn’t done fairly and we still you know are segregated in a way. It has never been completely wiped out. First thing they did, they raided the Black schools of teachers. They raided them of students. They said first accepted only, you know students with certain averages. And they closed them, our schools, our kids lost their identity. That’s what happened the last year I was at Vigor. They closed Mobile County Training School in the middle of the year and Blount they sent students from Blount and from Mobile County Training School in the middle of the year. Uprooted them and they resented it and that’s when all that fighting and walls really. They got up to school in the morning, National Guard is lined all out in front of the school with the guns and all and they fighting all day. Soon as the bell ring they were fighting. So, and then I left there and went to Dunbar and I had quite a few White teachers then and I noticed how they, they didn’t teach. They ignored the children and they were, they were schoolchildren you know they were impressed you know I had a White teacher and she let us do anything we wanted to do and the kids just stopped learning and started this obedience to everybody, disrespectful and everything. In our Black school we didn’t have that. We didn’t have the disrespect that came about. They let them do anything they wanted to do. They sat and gossip with em, oh yes, tell them everything that went on at home in the project over there over the weekends. You know everybody who had a fight, everybody who got busted for drugs, everybody who did this, who momma was having a baby for somebody else, and who was pregnant and that’s the kind of thing that carried on. I caught a teacher one day in the lounge, he was attending classes at South Alabama and he had to make a survey and he was passing this around. He had passed these slips out to his kids: “What do you like to do?” And he had a list of 20 questions on there and this child had put and at the answer for every question was the F- word. And I told him, I said, “a student turned this in to you and put his name on it, and you laughing about it?” I say, “He has no respect for you, and you going to carry this to your class?” he said, “Well yes, I'm making a survey of what they think.” They think that’s funny. See we were laughed at. So that’s when I think it really went downhill, its bad to say maybe, but like I said it had some good points but mostly and most people I talk with feel the same way.</text>
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              <text>Reed:	Yeah but in the early, in the latter part of the 30’s yeah we had a recreation center up on Davis Avenue, people used to go in there and play you know, tennis, I mean basketball, table tennis, that’s where they used to have the basketball games at, and if its dancing, we used to go to a place called Gomez Auditorium up there on Davis Avenue.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Now tell me about this Gomez Auditorium, was that, from what I could understand was that a upstairs place?&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	Right, upstairs on the…&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	What was underneath of it?&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	They had a shoe store was under there, they had a bakery shop under there, Jim’s Bar-b-que, it was under there, no it wasn’t, yeah it was on the side of it, but that’s where all the bands used to come the big bands.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Like who?&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	Oh, Carolina Cottonpickers, you don’t know, your dad probably remember that, the Carolina Cottonpickers.  Coolie Williams, Erskine Hawkins, What's that other band that used to come through here, Clean Head Eddie Vincent.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Clean Head Eddie Vincent?&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	Yeah he used to be terrible saxophone player.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Yeah?&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	He lost his hair in a big fire in Mississippi.  Jamos Shane, I can remember all of those, cause I used to slip in.  You know I was a kid then you know, Chuck Web.  Ella Fitzgerald.   That’s the first time I heard her right there at the room called the Old Dunbar High School now.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Ella Fitzgerald?&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	Yeah, came with Chuck Web.  When she wasn’t nothing but a girl. A- Tisket, A-Tasket.  Boy, you sho’ carried back some memories. &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	But they would have dances up in there, now what would call the dances at that time, like, how would you dress for a dance?&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	What they call, a Zoot Suit, then you had about 18 or 16 in the bottom, they would come up large, then they have long coats, almost down to your knees. We used to call that the Zoot Suit, that was the thing to have you know.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	So this was all before World War Two broke out.&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	Right after World War Two.  During World War Two, was ‘40 what, ‘41?  Yeah ’41, during that ’42, 43 long in there.  ‘41, ‘42, ‘43, yeah, yeah.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	So now can you tell me what your first job experience, the first time you got paid a little something for doing something, I guess that would have been your momma, work for your momma sort of.  &#13;
&#13;
Reed:	Oh I didn’t get any money for that.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Naw.&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	No, my first job was actually at Albright and Wood’s Drug store on Davis Avenue and Hospital, I was a soda jerker.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	What’s a soda jerker?&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	Serving ice cream, mixing just drinks which wasn’t nothing but milk shakes, vanilla and strawberry milk shakes.  $15 a month.  $7.15 every 1st or 15th.  And believe it or not I dressed out of Besteda Brothers bought a tailor made suit.  I paid for my graduation suit out of Besteda was tailor made.  Black and I never will forget it, Black, chalk-black suit.  Paid $2.00 a month, every month every week on it ‘til I finished paying for it.  During that time you can get a pair of tailor-made pants for $6.00.  We had 2 owned English factory tailors, there was 2 Syrian Brothers on Dauphin between Jackson and Claiborne called English Factory Tailor, ask your daddy about it, he’ll tell you about it.   And the Besteda Brothers on Davis Avenue.  Well we didn’t have no money, that’s why we had deposit,, measure it up, put it on lay-away, we pay 50 cents, $1.00 a week ‘til we finished paying for it and that’s the way I paid for my graduation suit.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	What you do, so that’s the job you got immediately out of high school?&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	Right, soon as I came out of high school.  I was working at ??? long in high school.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	Oh I see.&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	But when I left there I went to a place down on Dauphin and Royal called Simon Hat Shop.  I was the porter down there.&#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	What was your duties as porter?&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	Just cleaning up and running errands.  That had to be ’40, yeah it had to be ’41, ‘40-‘41 yeah, then the war broke out in ’41 and I had a choice, either go to the army or join the merchant marine.  So I joined the merchant marines.  I went to sea for 16 years.  &#13;
&#13;
Jackson:	All over the world.&#13;
&#13;
Reed:	Oh just about.  You name it, I've been there.&#13;
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                <text>Photo of Emma Harris, Mr. and Mrs. Guenter Jansen, Library Director, and Frank Frazer, Chair, Library Board</text>
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            <name>Creator</name>
            <description>An entity primarily responsible for making the resource</description>
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                <text>Ted Borg</text>
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            <name>Source</name>
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                <text>Emma Cortez Harris Collection</text>
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            <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
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                <text>Mobile Public Library</text>
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            <name>Date</name>
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                <text>1960s</text>
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            <name>Contributor</name>
            <description>An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource</description>
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                <text>Press Register</text>
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            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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            <description>An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context</description>
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        <name>Jansen</name>
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                  <text>Selection of photographs, certificates, and newspaper articles detailing the life and career of Emma Cortez Harris, Mobile Public Library's first librarian, director emeritus. Full collection is available for viewing in the Local History &amp; Genealogy division. </text>
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              <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                  <text>These items may be freely used for educational and research purposes; some may be protected under U.S. Copyright Law. While MPL may own the physical objects, it is up to the patron to determine and satisfy copyright restrictions when using this material.</text>
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              <name>Language</name>
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          <name>Original Format</name>
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                <text>Photo of Mrs. Emma Harris </text>
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