1 10 12 https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/bf9304f4d8909d5419ed9104caac7dfb.mp4 da52a0951f190f2ffd050dea07b64489 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Mobile, African American History Description An account of the resource Oral history interviews of elders in Mobile's African American communities. These items are clippings, and the full interviews are available for viewing at the Local History &amp; Genealogy division of the Mobile Public Library. A full listing of available interviews may be viewed <a href="http://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/items/show/2732">here</a>. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999-2002 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kern Jackson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interviews Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mobile-VOHP-Clips Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kern Jackson Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Rosemary Braziel Butler Location The location of the interview 470 West Creek Circle, Mobile, AL 36617 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Jackson: Um, tough question? Um, as a historian and this is a big, broad question but whatever you wanna say about it would be fine. Could you comment on race relations in Mobile? Butler: I’m having to give some thought to that. Actually when I was growing up, I didn’t notice it too much. ‘Cause we all, you know, it was just a thing, and we just walked down to the Saenger and go up in the balcony and we had such a good time, you know, everybody you knew would be up there in the balcony, so it really didn't matter. We would see some of our friends standing in the line at the white theater but we knew not to speak to them when they were in that line because we knew that they were passing. Jackson: What is that? Butler: Passing for white. There were some who were light enough to pass for white and I won’t… They would go to the white theater. So, and we would pass on our way to the Saenger we would sometimes pass the Crown and we would see these kids in the line over there but we it was an unwritten rule that we didn’t break that, you know, even though we were all in school together. Jackson: You think that’s something that went back to the times of the Adam Onas Treaty… Butler: I think so. Uh, huh. But nobody knew that they were passing. The people if they knew they didn’t say anything. But ah, like I say, even when even when I had to go through that at the Welfare Department, it just really didn’t bother me because it was I figured that you know, I was going to achieve over and above whatever they threw at me and so you know I had that inner desire and inner feeling that you know whatever happened I was gonna withstand it because I was gonna I was gonna be above it. Jackson: Uh, huh. Butler: So, I just, I guess ah, when did I first begin to really, really feel bad about it, maybe during World War II. That might’ve been when uh, I begin to have my first feelings about the differences and wanted to fight and be a part of a fight that would happen. Jackson: In your memory, how did that that notion of fighting take shape and what form did the fighting come for you? Butler: The form and the fighting came for me really rather late and it came through my husband. We had moved back to Mobile from Boston. He had gone to school at Boston University. And we stayed on a while. Then, because the family being here, we decided to come back to the South. And uh, he was working for the Mobile Housing Board and he saw no future there. Jackson: You didn’t tell me his name. Butler: Herbert Butler. And he was working for the Housing Board and we saw no future there. And this exam came up for state housing commission. So, he took the exam and was the only person to pass the exam. And we he was the only person to pass the exam. Governor Wallace abolished the position. So we decided that, that was not going to be. So, my husband was a friend of Senator, the first black senator, Senator Edward Brooke, who had gone to school together in Boston. And we wrote Eddie and he got the justice department involved and the justice department sued the state of Alabama. Made them give Herbert the job as State Housing Commissioner and made Governor Wallace pay him all the back salary that he would have earned if had hired him two years earlier. And Judge Frank Johnson, who just died, was the one who made the ruling. And in that ruling which still have upstairs, it opened the way for all blacks to be hired within the state, in state offices. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 4 min 11 sec Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Rosemary Braziel Butler Interview Clip Subject The topic of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Rosemary Butler talks about race relations in Mobile, including segregated theaters and her husband's fight for the position of State Housing Commissioner . Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rosemary Braziel Butler National African American Archives & Museum Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available National African American Archives & Museum Museum of Mobile Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource August 20, 1999 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interview Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VOHP-RosemaryButler-Race-Relations Mobile Housing Board race relations segregation theater Wallace https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/e1d7031bac9fe448298dcdc443181998.mp4 02a7a3e51fcfd9a0371791803f23bb26 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Mobile, African American History Description An account of the resource Oral history interviews of elders in Mobile's African American communities. These items are clippings, and the full interviews are available for viewing at the Local History &amp; Genealogy division of the Mobile Public Library. A full listing of available interviews may be viewed <a href="http://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/items/show/2732">here</a>. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999-2002 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kern Jackson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interviews Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mobile-VOHP-Clips Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Location The location of the interview Lewis' Quarters, Africatown Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Jackson: Tell me about the Lewis’ Quarters of your adult life. Woods: Okay, since when I was very small, we were living in Green’s Alley but we always… before my grandmother built the house back in the ‘60s, she rebuilt a house and she moved… she got tired of Plateau and she wanted to move back home ‘cause she always wanted… she said she just didn’t feel right in Plateau ‘cause that wasn’t where she was born at. So her daughter and them… she working and her daughter and them put together, and they helped her rebuild that house that you see the green and white across the street. And she moved back in the house, and before she moved in that house we used to always come over here in Green… over here in Lewis’ Quarters on Friday and Saturday night ‘cause this was the place to be. This where all the happenings for this area used to be for African-Amercians that were living in this area. My granddaddy and them had everything in Lewis’ Quarters you wanted. You could come over here and they raised all they farm animals. They made, well, a lot of people don’t like to say it, they sold drinks like whiskey and they had like parties. And they’d sit out and ate bar-be-cue and they, my uncle and them was great fishermen. They always could fish and hunt and they would cook right… You see this lil’ house here, Uncle Dana and them could go there and get that big pot and every ‘round Christmas and before Thanksgiving they would put up a hog or put up a cow or put up a goat or put the livestock that they was gon cook for the holidays and they would clean ‘em right out here. And like you say cracklins, we would, my uncle and them would clean that pig, they would put him up for about a month and clean him out. You called it cleaning him out and getting him ready to slaughter. So they would clean the pig and that night my grandmomma and them would have a big party, they would play my uncle and them would play the records. And we would have, they would make, get the big iron pot that we cooked, we washed in the pot, but when we wanted, when we skinned the pig, they would make the cracklins and you could hear the cracklins be cracklin. We couldn’t wait ‘cause the smell would go all over the Quarters. You know, we would have fresh cracklins. And my momma and them would come over here and they would have a good time and sit out and talk and quilt and sew. Now some nights my grandmomma and them they got together and made quilts together. And that’s how they talk time on. People didn’t have no TVs so that’s how they would entertain each other. We would be in the lane playing at night. We could play long as we wanna ‘cause we’n have to worry about a car running over you or nobody coming and kidnapping you or anything because what we were over in Lewis’ Quarters. This where we felt we could be like family and we didn’t have to worry about anybody invading. Everybody that came to Lewis’ Quarters they were like family or friend. Just anybody couldn’t come in Lewis’ Quarter because everybody knew who everybody was, and they was very protective of they own. And like a stranger like a hobo would get off the train right out here, and he could walk over here. They’d check him out before he could come and sit around the fire. They always kept a fire right out here. When those hobos would ride the train down this track and they would come over here and they would give him a meal or give him a drank or give him some water and they would sit a while and they would go when the train come back through, they’d hop the train and keep on downtown or further north, if they was the train was going north or further south, if they were going south. And so you look at Lewis’ Quarters, it was sectioned off and everybody had they own house. That’s the reason I said when we moved in Happy Hill for a while that wasn’t like home to us ‘cause we always, when we were growing everybody had their own house and they own yard. And they kept these yards up really well. It was a beautiful place, but by all the older people dying out now and the younger people that couldn’t find jobs like they wanted, so they moved away. So it’s been a uphill battle for us to try to bring it back to its glory, but we are slowly but surely we’re gonna bring it back. And so we as a child coming over here was just like heaven to me because you didn’t feel nothing but friendship. We loved each other, they, it was a lot of love over here. And if my auntie and them found out you needed something for school, you washed they windows, or you did some chore for them while you was over here on Saturday. If my momma had to go to work, we came over here and stayed until she got home from work. We would do chores for the family. And work in the garden and help feed the pigs and go get water for my uncle and them ‘cause these houses, if you look at this house here, it didn’t have running water, it didn’t have electricity, it didn’t have… and it had a outhouse, and so, you know, we didn’t have a lot of stuff we could be, like you say, even though this being a old, old house but my uncles stayed in it. It didn’t have the modern convenience. But they left this house up to show us from which we came because it was a meek and humble place. But as they families started getting better jobs and they started living better. And most of these houses were built by family members. They’d work a while and they would buy bricks, they would stack bricks, they would go to old yards and get the bricks and stack ‘em up just like you see those bricks stacked up over there. My auntie, she, they worked on they own houses. They would like in the evenings when they husbands would come home from work, if the house needed wood, planks put on it, they added rooms onto they houses. And we also had a our a relative named Vic Days and the Days boys were construction workers; they could build. And my folks could build too, but they didn’t the expertise that they had. So, they built, a lot of these houses were built from the ground up by family members and friends not a construction company. But the ones that knew a little bit about construction work, and they put ‘em together. And they still standing after all these many years, they are still standing. But this was the place to be. I heard a man, I heard a reverend on Sunday at a, the Africatown Family and Friends Day, his name is Rev. Hosey. Rev. Hosey don’t know me as per se, but he know my momma and daddy and I didn’t say anything because I wanted to hear what he had to say. And he related to Lewis’ Quarter. Everybody knew on Friday night from all the way up in Prichard to Hap.. Kelly Hill to Plateau, this was the place to be because nobody got out, you know, got out the way with you. My uncle and them kept you in check, they knew when you come over here, you had to, you couldn’t use foul language in front of the children and when we got through with our lil’ chores doing for them around dusk dark, we had to go over there in the Lane. We couldn’t come ‘round here where they would be dranking and partying. They would tell us, they gave us a lot of respect. And we, to the day, that respect lives on in me because it’s certain things I would not do, I don’t care who do it. I know I will not do it because my uncle and them said there’s a way to do anything. There’s a right way and there’s a wrong way. And we instilled that value in our children today. When they come over here and you saw them over here, they loved, we teach love in our family that this what this quarter was all about. It was built on love for each other. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kern Jackson Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lorna Gail Autrey Woods Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 7 min 52 sec Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 23, 2000 Title A name given to the resource Lorna Gail Woods Interview Clip Subject The topic of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Lorna Woods talks about the sense of community and family she experienced growing up in Lewis' Quarters. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lorna Gail Woods National African American Archives & Museum Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available National African American Archives & Museum Museum of Mobile Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interview Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VOHP-LornaWoods-Lewis-Quarters Africatown community Lewis' Quarters love https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/dda44ac50b68fd84e82c1c458b6cfe95.pdf 8b41616b230f57815c859ae482f9f6a6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Mobile, African American History Description An account of the resource Oral history interviews of elders in Mobile's African American communities. These items are clippings, and the full interviews are available for viewing at the Local History &amp; Genealogy division of the Mobile Public Library. A full listing of available interviews may be viewed <a href="http://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/items/show/2732">here</a>. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999-2002 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kern Jackson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interviews Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mobile-VOHP-Clips Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Full List of VOHP Interviews Subject The topic of the resource oral history Description An account of the resource List of full VOHP interviews available for viewing at Local History & Genealogy library Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Valerie Ellis, Local History & Genealogy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource pdf Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VOHP-Interview-List https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/a6e6790e95f0b357ea79275049b2f1aa.mp4 7b2609cab8ee3d98d2a572d8c7dbc103 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Mobile, African American History Description An account of the resource Oral history interviews of elders in Mobile's African American communities. These items are clippings, and the full interviews are available for viewing at the Local History &amp; Genealogy division of the Mobile Public Library. A full listing of available interviews may be viewed <a href="http://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/items/show/2732">here</a>. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999-2002 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kern Jackson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interviews Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mobile-VOHP-Clips Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kern Jackson Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed James Arthur Reed Location The location of the interview 2151 Jewel Court Mobile, Alabama 36617 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Reed: Yeah but in the early, in the latter part of the 30’s yeah we had a recreation center up on Davis Avenue, people used to go in there and play you know, tennis, I mean basketball, table tennis, that’s where they used to have the basketball games at, and if its dancing, we used to go to a place called Gomez Auditorium up there on Davis Avenue. Jackson: Now tell me about this Gomez Auditorium, was that, from what I could understand was that a upstairs place? Reed: Right, upstairs on the… Jackson: What was underneath of it? Reed: They had a shoe store was under there, they had a bakery shop under there, Jim’s Bar-b-que, it was under there, no it wasn’t, yeah it was on the side of it, but that’s where all the bands used to come the big bands. Jackson: Like who? Reed: Oh, Carolina Cottonpickers, you don’t know, your dad probably remember that, the Carolina Cottonpickers. Coolie Williams, Erskine Hawkins, What's that other band that used to come through here, Clean Head Eddie Vincent. Jackson: Clean Head Eddie Vincent? Reed: Yeah he used to be terrible saxophone player. Jackson: Yeah? Reed: He lost his hair in a big fire in Mississippi. Jamos Shane, I can remember all of those, cause I used to slip in. You know I was a kid then you know, Chuck Web. Ella Fitzgerald. That’s the first time I heard her right there at the room called the Old Dunbar High School now. Jackson: Ella Fitzgerald? Reed: Yeah, came with Chuck Web. When she wasn’t nothing but a girl. A- Tisket, A-Tasket. Boy, you sho’ carried back some memories. Jackson: But they would have dances up in there, now what would call the dances at that time, like, how would you dress for a dance? Reed: What they call, a Zoot Suit, then you had about 18 or 16 in the bottom, they would come up large, then they have long coats, almost down to your knees. We used to call that the Zoot Suit, that was the thing to have you know. Jackson: So this was all before World War Two broke out. Reed: Right after World War Two. During World War Two, was ‘40 what, ‘41? Yeah ’41, during that ’42, 43 long in there. ‘41, ‘42, ‘43, yeah, yeah. Jackson: So now can you tell me what your first job experience, the first time you got paid a little something for doing something, I guess that would have been your momma, work for your momma sort of. Reed: Oh I didn’t get any money for that. Jackson: Naw. Reed: No, my first job was actually at Albright and Wood’s Drug store on Davis Avenue and Hospital, I was a soda jerker. Jackson: What’s a soda jerker? Reed: Serving ice cream, mixing just drinks which wasn’t nothing but milk shakes, vanilla and strawberry milk shakes. $15 a month. $7.15 every 1st or 15th. And believe it or not I dressed out of Besteda Brothers bought a tailor made suit. I paid for my graduation suit out of Besteda was tailor made. Black and I never will forget it, Black, chalk-black suit. Paid $2.00 a month, every month every week on it ‘til I finished paying for it. During that time you can get a pair of tailor-made pants for $6.00. We had 2 owned English factory tailors, there was 2 Syrian Brothers on Dauphin between Jackson and Claiborne called English Factory Tailor, ask your daddy about it, he’ll tell you about it. And the Besteda Brothers on Davis Avenue. Well we didn’t have no money, that’s why we had deposit,, measure it up, put it on lay-away, we pay 50 cents, $1.00 a week ‘til we finished paying for it and that’s the way I paid for my graduation suit. Jackson: What you do, so that’s the job you got immediately out of high school? Reed: Right, soon as I came out of high school. I was working at ??? long in high school. Jackson: Oh I see. Reed: But when I left there I went to a place down on Dauphin and Royal called Simon Hat Shop. I was the porter down there. Jackson: What was your duties as porter? Reed: Just cleaning up and running errands. That had to be ’40, yeah it had to be ’41, ‘40-‘41 yeah, then the war broke out in ’41 and I had a choice, either go to the army or join the merchant marine. So I joined the merchant marines. I went to sea for 16 years. Jackson: All over the world. Reed: Oh just about. You name it, I've been there. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 5 min 38 sec Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource James Arthur Reed Interview Clip Subject The topic of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource James Arthur Reed talks about Gomez Auditorium, the bands that used to play there, and his first job at Albright and Wood's Drug Store. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource James Arthur Reed National African American Archives & Museum Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interview Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VOHP-JamesArthurReed-Gomez Albright & Wood Arthur James Reed Besteda Brothers Carolina Cottonpickers Davis Avenue Ella Fitzgerald Gomez Auditorium Simon Hat Shop zoot suit https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/08f2663590ec75a5af24cc864b1c4ade.mp4 8e6648b864c804934c5437f141597520 https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/87bf2ae793ad9d3fde83a93e4d5c6c83.mp4 586a258c18a92f1a7b8bfa734105ba3e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Mobile, African American History Description An account of the resource Oral history interviews of elders in Mobile's African American communities. These items are clippings, and the full interviews are available for viewing at the Local History &amp; Genealogy division of the Mobile Public Library. A full listing of available interviews may be viewed <a href="http://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/items/show/2732">here</a>. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999-2002 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kern Jackson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interviews Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mobile-VOHP-Clips Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kern Jackson Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Willie Peal Lewis Location The location of the interview 704 Rebecca Drive Mobile, Alabama 36617 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound 1st Interview Transcription: Jackson: When you walked into your own classroom that first time, do you remember that day? Or do you remember that year or that time? Lewis: Not my first classroom, I really don’t remember that. I tell you this, I know it wasn’t a frightening thing because I had been used to teaching. Before I finished college, before I finished high school, we used to, at Dunbar when your teachers would be out, you know they didn’t have sick leave like they have now, well they would get some of the students to hold their classes, and in the Spring when they would go to the association meeting in Montgomery, we would hold their classes and school work correcting papers, fixing the register report, I had done that when I was in the 4th and 5th grade for my mother. So it really you know wasn’t anything new in a way, but I loved teaching though. Jackson: Really? Lewis: I did until it got so rough. Now the first time experiencing a classroom that I can tell you that I can remember, was my first day at Vigor High School. I was sent over there from Mobile County Training School during the desegregation era. And I was the first Black one that went over there. First Black woman and Randolph Thrower came from Blount. So it was just the 2 of us and I didn’t want to go, and I went to Superintendent____, he said if you had any questions…. See school opened Tuesday, and I got a registered letter Friday, uh huh to go. Saturday evening at that. Jackson: 4 days, 3 days. Lewis: Uh huh, no school day because it was a holiday that Monday, so I went to Superintendent in his office that Monday morning, and I got there, there were about 20 people there. When I gave the secretary my name, she ushered me right on in. I say well now, this is strange you know. So Herb Pope was superintendent, assistant at that time. So he wanted to know what was my complaint, so I told him, I said, “ I have been teaching, I have an elementary certificate that certifies me to teach from grades 1 through 9 and I've been at Mobile County Training School and I been teaching 9th grade English for the last 11years and Vigor is a senior high school, grades 10 through the 12th.” He said, “Well if you can teach 9th grade English, you can teach 12th grade English or you can go home and sit up.” Then the interview was over. So I got in a house and a car so I got to, I can't go home. So I went to Vigor, and I had met I had you know, I didn’t know what to expect. I don’t think they knew what to expect either because out on the hall where we were, the first 3 days we were there, the three, four football coaches, two each, to a class. They control the halls, all day. So the 4th day I went down to get my manuals, my books and they weren't there, they didn’t come that day you know in the hall so they were giving out books. So I ask them, I say, “where were you today, I missed you, I didn’t see you?” “Well we thought you knew what you were doing, we didn’t need to come down there.” Those were the kind of things that you met you know. But I say this, the kids were nice, they were really nice, most of them with the exception, to me of one or two. Now there might have been more, I knew there were more but, to me. Jackson: No more difficult children than you would normally have. Lewis: No, um umm. But you handle them in a different way. Now they acted you know, quiet at first you know, I guess they were weighing me out and I'm weighing them out, so I told them in the beginning you know, I didn’t know what they thought. But I hadn’t asked to come over there and I'm sure they hadn’t sent for, but we are here together and I'm going to stay and we gonna make the best of it. And I'm going to do my part and I expect you to do yours. And I really, I never had any trouble. I stayed over there 3 years. Jackson: No kidding? Lewis: Uh uhh. The only thing that happened one time, just before Christmas a little boy, he was passing a note and so I said read ___, so I called his name I forget his name, he was white, his name was _____. I said, “Let’s share the note you know, bring it up here so we can all have a good laugh.” And it was this poem about Black Christmas, you know, I don’t know if you ever saw one or not. It was about ___ this year you can't sing White Christmas and you got to have Chocolate ice cream as well as Vanilla, it was a whole lot of little things like that on it and so I had him to read it. “Uh huh, read it out loud so we can all hear it you know and we won’t waste time passing it from one to the other.” And he didn’t write that so I didn’t have any more trouble, not a bit and Christmas at the end of the year, the gifts, the gifts, the gifts. They gave me a hard schedule, I didn’t mind it. I had a homeroom, I had 2 regular 11th grade classes in English. I had 2 remedial classes of 12th grade English, and a 10th grade remedial class. 10th grade with all the dumb football players in it and see they had 4 Black, 6 Black football players. They gave them all to me. Jackson: Then you worked with them. Lewis: Um hmm, the 12th graders, some had been there 3 or 4 years in the 12th grade. Could barely write their names. 2nd Interview Transcription: Jackson: Mobile, particularly Black Mobile is a more literate place than when your father came here. Had there been any key moments in Black Mobile history that you can point to and say you know, this was an important for good or for bad, for the literacy rate changing. This moment here was crucial. Lewis: Oh if anything I would say, desegregation of the schools here changed literacy rate for the worse. It had some good points, but what happened it wasn’t done fairly and we still you know are segregated in a way. It has never been completely wiped out. First thing they did, they raided the Black schools of teachers. They raided them of students. They said first accepted only, you know students with certain averages. And they closed them, our schools, our kids lost their identity. That’s what happened the last year I was at Vigor. They closed Mobile County Training School in the middle of the year and Blount they sent students from Blount and from Mobile County Training School in the middle of the year. Uprooted them and they resented it and that’s when all that fighting and walls really. They got up to school in the morning, National Guard is lined all out in front of the school with the guns and all and they fighting all day. Soon as the bell ring they were fighting. So, and then I left there and went to Dunbar and I had quite a few White teachers then and I noticed how they, they didn’t teach. They ignored the children and they were, they were schoolchildren you know they were impressed you know I had a White teacher and she let us do anything we wanted to do and the kids just stopped learning and started this obedience to everybody, disrespectful and everything. In our Black school we didn’t have that. We didn’t have the disrespect that came about. They let them do anything they wanted to do. They sat and gossip with em, oh yes, tell them everything that went on at home in the project over there over the weekends. You know everybody who had a fight, everybody who got busted for drugs, everybody who did this, who momma was having a baby for somebody else, and who was pregnant and that’s the kind of thing that carried on. I caught a teacher one day in the lounge, he was attending classes at South Alabama and he had to make a survey and he was passing this around. He had passed these slips out to his kids: “What do you like to do?” And he had a list of 20 questions on there and this child had put and at the answer for every question was the F- word. And I told him, I said, “a student turned this in to you and put his name on it, and you laughing about it?” I say, “He has no respect for you, and you going to carry this to your class?” he said, “Well yes, I'm making a survey of what they think.” They think that’s funny. See we were laughed at. So that’s when I think it really went downhill, its bad to say maybe, but like I said it had some good points but mostly and most people I talk with feel the same way. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 8 min 51 sec 5 min 17 sec Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Willie Pearl Lewis Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Willie Pearl Lewis talks about being a teacher, moving from Mobile County Training School to Vigor High School, and being one of the first black teachers at a formerly all white school. Willie Pearl Lewis talks about the effects of desegregation on education and literacy. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Willie Pearl Lewis National African American Archives & Museum Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interview Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VOHP-WilliePearlLewis-Teaching desegregation education literacy Mobile County Training School oral history. Willie Pearl Lewis race relations Randolph Thrower Vigor High School https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/a9619afced1a1c9f449585fdaa61db58.mp4 0ed0bf785d053678172474021f14e82a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Mobile, African American History Description An account of the resource Oral history interviews of elders in Mobile's African American communities. These items are clippings, and the full interviews are available for viewing at the Local History &amp; Genealogy division of the Mobile Public Library. A full listing of available interviews may be viewed <a href="http://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/items/show/2732">here</a>. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999-2002 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kern Jackson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interviews Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mobile-VOHP-Clips Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kern Jackson Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lancie Thomas Claretta Blackmon Location The location of the interview The Mobile Beacon 2311 Costarides Street Mobile, Alabama Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Jackson: Yeah, let’s talk a little bit about that. About what, what the Beacon has done. First of all, how’d the Beacon get it's name, Beacon? Blackmon: Well, you know, beacon stands for light. It was his vision to, to, to have a light he says “a light.” You know, we have our logo, our slogan is “the light that never fails.” Because this paper has been in existence 56 years and a few months as of June 1, 2000. We’ll be 57 years. And we never missed an issue no matter what the, what the conflict. We never, never missed an issue of the paper. So that’s one of our great accomplishments, we’ve never, we’ve always been able to come out. And I envision us as always coming out as long as we are in existence. Or as long as we, we maintain to keep our paper. Jackson: What’s the circulation now here in Mobile of the Beacon? Blackmon: The circulation in Mobile is about 5,000. We have 7,000 circulation but within that Mobile area, see we mail papers all over the United States. Jackson: Okay. Blackmon: And we have, we have a higher, we have a good bit of circulation. Actually it’s a little bit more than that because we mail, we mail out more than 3,000 papers a week. Than, you know, you have to count a lot of comps that you give away. So, well after you keep adding up and adding up ah, the circulation goes up. So, I think out circulation right now fluctuates between 8 and 10,000. But we have 5 actually paid here in the city and I’m going on paid. Not on… Jackson: Right, right. Blackmon: I talked paid, paid because that’s what your survival is what you get money for. Jackson: Now just going back to what you were saying earlier about what, what the Beacon has done since you took it over and and when your, your daddy and your momma in they heyday with it historically for Mobile, Black Mobile, Mobile in general, if you can comment on that. Blackmon: Well, I think, I think that we have been access, a great access, asset to Mobile because of the fact that we helped the elected officials that you have in office right now, the Black folks, we have been very instrumental in helping them get elected to these positions. People read and they look forward to what they see. And as we promote those people for election and help to get them elected that our community look at TV and and buy the daily paper. But you have people who are supportive of looking to see what’s in here. They look to see if, if that person is in here. And ah, we have always wanted to promote human, a great human relationship between us and the bar between the races and I think that the paper has been instrumental in those ways. I should hope so anyway but I’m very, I feel very favorable that we have done that. We’ve had a impact on that within our community. You got a comment on that, Mrs. Thomas? Thomas: Ah, yes. I will. I don’t know exactly what’s been said. I don’t intend to repeat but now… Jackson: That’s alright. Don’t worry. Thomas: … your Black, our Black newspapers in the state of Alabama has helped the whole state to change because we have sponsored which I’ve told a lot of people. My daughter thank I talk to much when I get on voter registration. Cause that has been our pet piece. Not only the Beacon but the whole state of Alabama where ever there is a newspaper. Okay, what we formed during the other general election time. And no more do we have it because people don’t show interest. It’s sad but it’s true. Okay, we would form a motorcade to my… Say, not every not indicate in the motorcade abut every county in Alabama through our newspapers have had representation in Birmingham. We selected Birmingham cause it was a central location, we felt in Alabama. Those coming from North Alabama, from South Alabama, east and west. Everybody would meet in Birmingham the Sunday before the election on Tuesday for general election. That’s right. We would have 2 and 3 buses leaving Mobile. Newspaper got the publicity out. The newspaper helped get the people on the busses. You understand what I mean. Jackson: Yes, I understand. Thomas: And they were there. Birmingham, the Black folks took Birmingham that Sunday before election. We would leave Mobile at 3 to 4 o’clock then on Sun, that Sunday morning. We took Sunday for it cause most folks were off on Sunday that could take off. And we would leave Mobile at 4 o’clock or 3 o’clock what ever time is was set. And they would come from all direction into Birmingham. And I mean every county had a bus coming in. Nobody came in cars. I don’t, not nobody, but nobody depend on cars to get everybody to Birmingham. Jackson: Right, right. Thomas: And we would go into Birmingham on Sunday morning. Get in there time enough for all the meeting start at 9 o’clock. And we would be in meeting all day. We only broke for lunch. And we had lunch right where the meeting were. In the central location where our meetings were. And we would stay there to maybe 5 or 6 o’clock at night to check candidates. Everybody from a county brought their candidates and discussed how they felt about those candidates. Jackson: Right, right. Thomas: And at the end of the day just fore the day ended, they would have committees who’d check, were checking on this information that had been gathered. And we would say we goin vote on the lesser of the evil. Cause all of em were evil. We felt that none of em were perfect where Black folks concern. And they was, we would select the person we would vote on in Tuscaloosa County, Greene County, Hale County, cause all these counties were in our section. Mobile or Dallas County whatever. And they would select that, the best person of the evils or they…. That’s the way they, we used that term. And everybody would go back home and vote for that person. If he was a state candidate, he got all the Black votes over the state. Therefore, you could put the person that you wanted to vote in and that’s what we did. And that’s how so many things changed in Alabama. But a lot of things has not changed, I’ll tell you that for sure. Jackson: Like what? Thomas: Well most of time, we get bad folks in office regardless to how you vote. Because some of our Black folks go back home and still don’t vote. And they still don’t be concerned of what those committees brought back to them from that meeting in Birmingham. If it’s not their friend and somebody had paid them a few dollars, a lot of times they would vote for em, for that evil person we would say. But as the time went on and you educated them more. Cause we had a voter registration, where we educated those folks how to vote. That meeting helped but you got to educate their brain so they can think right. And that’s what really did. Cause George Wallace when she, she had, we’d have an editorial this week on it. He told, came to the our office down on Cedar, I never will forget that day. George Wallace who was our governor, who ran for the president of the United States if you remember, you probably… Jackson: Yes, ma’am I remember. Thomas: You probably too young to remember. Maybe you read something about. [Laughter] Jackson: I read about it. Thomas: Okay George Wallace came to our office the next day after the election. He had lost that year. He said, “Mr. Thomas, I wanna tell you something.” Frank said, “What is it, George?” He said, “I lost this time but I’ma tell you something. I’m going to win next time.” He said, “Well, you goon next time when you lost this time.” “Because I was depending on the Black votes. I didn’t get the Black votes like I thought I was goon get. But y’all don’t have enough votes to put me in no how. So next to run, I’m running and I’m goon win.” He did. He won the next time. He told my husband, “It’s too many of the Klans, we got too many Klans in Alabama. I’m goon get the Klan vote next year.” And he got em and he won. Jackson: He said that to your husband. Thomas: Sure. That’s what I’m telling you. He said it and he won. But he was thinking. He was right. He said, “But remember, I have a lot plans that I’ll do to help Blacks but I can’t help when I’m on the outside. I’m on get in there and I’m on do it. Then, I can do some of these things.” Blackmon: So, in other words, he was saying, am I interpreting right… Jackson: Go ahead, interpret. Blackmon: He was saying that, you know, he wasn’t favoring the Klan so they didn’t, they didn’t… Thomas: Vote for him. Blackmon: …give him any votes. He wasn’t against, he wasn’t against the Blacks as, as, as it is seemed in history. Thomas: Uh, huh. That’s right. Blackmon: Ah, and is written in history. But he had to go with the majority not the minority in order to get into office. Is that what he was saying? Thomas: That’s what he was, that’s what he meant. Uh, huh. And he got it. And he did a lot. See people don’t give Wallace credit for a lot of things he did. He changed the educational system. He helped that in Alabama. And he did a lot of things that people don’t know Wallace did. Blackmon: Didn’t the community colleges become existent under his administration? Thomas: Under his administration. He sure did. So, he did a lot of things. And he told em that he was goon stand in the university door to keep it from it being integrated. But he didn’t mean it that way. He stood in the door and then walked right on out. He said, he did what he said. Blackmon: He stood in the door because he had in the door because that’s the White folks… Jackson: He said he was goon do. Blackmon: … expected him to do. Thomas: The White folks and the main thing those Klans. See the Klans wanted, he was doing that to get by the Klan cause he had promised the the Klan that he was goon stand in the door. Jackson: Tell me this cause I wanna know. Was there ever any Klan in Mobile, Alabama? Thomas: Yes, sir. [Laughter] They in there, in here now, you don’t know their living here. Blackmon: We still living here too. Thomas: Yes, sir. They here. [Laughter] You better… Jackson: You talk about educating folks and making people literate of things like voting, it’s almost as if we, we have a slight miseducation issue here because people are assuming the Klan and like-minded folks are no longer in existence. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 10 min 40 sec Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lancie Thomas & Claretta Blackmon Interview Clip Subject The topic of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Lancie Thomas and Claretta Blackmon talk about The Mobile Beacon, what it has done for the community, politics, Gov. Wallace, and the Klan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lancie Thomas Claretta Blackmon National African American Archives & Museum Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interview Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VOHP-Thomas&Blackmon-Beacon African American newspaper desegregation George Wallace KKK Ku Klux Klan Mobile newspaper politics The Beacon https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/48930556dac603a475d066fd55f6b492.mp4 34a8c42dee0b7fa903534af9b2bd2019 https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/e78240d17df9c10250050b0fa41f3780.mp4 fa1dba084b95a4389fb0dc66ba5676f4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Mobile, African American History Description An account of the resource Oral history interviews of elders in Mobile's African American communities. These items are clippings, and the full interviews are available for viewing at the Local History &amp; Genealogy division of the Mobile Public Library. A full listing of available interviews may be viewed <a href="http://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/items/show/2732">here</a>. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999-2002 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kern Jackson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interviews Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mobile-VOHP-Clips Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kern Jackson Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Casmarah Mani Location The location of the interview Diamond's Convenience Store 637 North Thomas Avenue Prichard, Alabama Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Jackson: Right. When you think back to childhood days, what are some key events, key things that have happened in your memory that kind of define the neighborhood and define the time or the place? Mani: Good question. That’s a good question. I really can’t think of any outstanding incidents that was defined other than the neighborhood was more of a how you say a community type neighborhood. There was a lot of brotherhood, love and sharing. Used to go to the neighbor borrow a cup of sugar. The neighbor would come to you and borrow a cup of flour. You know. If you did something wrong and you saw, the neighbor had the authority from your parents to whoop your butt. And you tell your parents, the parents whoop you again most likely. You know. There was a lot of…the African proverb about the village is responsible for raising a child, the entire village is responsible for raising a child. I guess that would be my most distinct memory of the Black community in Prichard when I was coming up. Jackson: Can you… do you have some sense of when things in your estimation changed? Mani: Well you know you have to say that many of the changes began when you start talking about desegregation. Jackson: Okay. Mani: You know. The intents of desegregation was real good. It’s noble, honorable. The end results didn’t quite add up or measure up to what the intent started out to be. With desegregation, we wind up seeing Black kids bussed from our neighborhood to other neighborhoods you know. You wind up seeing Black schools that were high schools like Central… Jackson: County. Mani: I’m going to that but I’m trying to think of the word for these ___ Central and County that were hallmark Black schools in our community. That our parents and there parents had went to school there. You know it’s kind of like institutions in our community. They were closed you know. And those kids that went to those high schools were bussed somewhere else. Unfortunately, many Black teachers became unemployed. Many Black principals became unemployed. Got lost in the shuffle. Many people left town during that gap. If I had to think of a turning point educationally in the Black community when we start talking about desegregating and bussing kids from one neighborhood to he other. And you know there is a distinct cultural difference you know in young Black kids and young white kids you know. And when you got white teachers coming out of white neighborhoods they kind of understand the distinct contradiction between a white kid. Pretty much the same music they like pretty much. The same cultural things they get involved and they like. And then with the Black teacher kind of like the same thing. She can tune in on a Black kid because you know she got this kind of like soul sisters and brothers. That’s were the word “soul” came from. My soul brother mean that we brought through the same experience. Know what I mean. Just like if you Black you can go out there and be confronted by the police for no reason. No matter how much money you got in your pocket you can go out there and be confronted by the police or be confronted with racism for no reason. That will make us be brothers of the same experience. Soul brothers. And I kind of feel like desegregation kind of got lost in the shuffle with all its good intents through integration. You know. Know when I think we were arguing for equal justice my idea of equal justice would be bringing the standards up to where they should be. But many Black leaders at that time felt that equal justice means integrating everything, not just some things but everything. And I don’t think everything should be integrated. And right now where you go to school got a Black and white, mixed. Blacks and whites get along fine. But at a given time in a day, at lunch time for example. All the white kids, most the white kids go sit with the white kids, most of the Black kids go sit with the Black kids. They mingle fine. Get along as friends many times. But the distinct difference is they branch off to there own kind to talk about things that each other are familiar with. You know there was time when they were testing people in New York and the Black people complained about the test they we’re being subject to. And one of the brothers pointed out that if you take some kids from New York and give his a test on the country, the gone most likely do poorly on that test compared to a kid from the country taking that same test. If you take the kid from the country give his a test on the city like subways, et cetera et cetera, he’ll probably do poorly as opposed to testing the kid from New York. So you saying that in that statement is that if you have an instructor that can relate to the cultural background of a child, his or her chance of communicating with that kid is better. Jackson: When you were coming up through Blount and going to school and everything when did you, I assume this during a major part of the civil rights struggle, when did you become in Prichard like politically aware of all these things. It sounded like your granddaddy had already turned you on to all that stuff all along. Mani: Yeah. There was a subconscious knowledge about certain things. Jackson: Like what? Mani: About being a Black man. There was a set of rules different when it came down to dealing with Black people as opposed to white people. Knowing that being in the Black community that there was certain sense of safety as opposed to branching out from the Black community. At that time, see Prichard Mall was predominately white. Everybody living around the Prichard Mall at that time were white people. Blacks lived further off over on off Main Street by Blount High School and concentrated around that area around in there. But when you went to the mall, you had to be running through that mall, you know what I mean. ‘Cause those jokers be at you. Those white kids be at you. And ‘cause there was… Jim Crow was the order of the day then. You know Blacks had a place they had to stay in and the propaganda of Jim Crowism made a lot of seemingly good white people believe by that garbage that Blacks were inferior, that Blacks were monkeys, we had tails and you couldn’t trust none of us cause all of us were theives and that same premise still lives with us today, you know. But that was a sense of safety in the Black community at that time. Not necessarily from the white area or outside area but a safety from not feeling from your brother or a sister. A safety you don’t feel now because if we walk out , I walk out my door now, it won’t be anybody which might look like me and so that white sticking me up, you know what I mean. Its got the stick up man and what the big difference is from then and now is. That sense of safety that we feel around our own people is gone. And it’s kind of like when Hitler ruled Germany, he ruled Germany through fear and paranoia. The husband couldn’t trust the wife, the momma couldn’t trust the son, the son couldn’t trust the daddy, they couldn’t trust the children, you know what I mean because Hitler had put so many paranoia and fear and trusting one another among the populous and that’s how you rule and control. And it’s kind of like the system has us now. We have so much paranoia with one another you don’t know who to trust. Solid guys walk up to you, you know, “Hey what’s man?” And you look at ‘em… He may not be as solid as he looks. Mani: And I guess about two months later, I made parole. And when I made parole we started a lil organization called Keep the Community Hall. It was on Davis Avenue then. Jackson: Keep The Community who? Mani: Keep the Community Hall. H-A-L-L. Jackson: Where on Davis Avenue? Mani: Right where Stewart Memorial Church is now. Jackson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mani: Used to be a barber shop, Nobles. Mr. Nobles was a midget, had a little barber shop on the Avenue. It was a lil complex right there. Lil 3 or 4 complex, barber shop and our community hall was on the end there. And they torn it down and put Stewart Memorial Church there. On the corner of Davis Avenue and Ann Street. Ann run right into it. You know. And we was kind of like a community based group that dealt with teaching karate or teaching culture. Free lunch program, had the lunch, free food program. Kind of like patterned after the Black Panthers Party in California at that time, you know. And Vincent Woods was our chairman. Good guy, he eventually tripped out and kind of you know, things got so rough for him and I guess he kind of broke down a little bit, you know, lost his self for a while. He’d just walk around, you know. And he’s come back, he’s come back. After years, he’s come back in the last five or six years, he’s come back to his self. But he was our chairman at the time. Think we were about sixteen guys strong and we had a little dance troupe called the Liberation Players. A group of teenage dancers who did African… A guy named Shinny and Lorenzo who taught skit and dances. African skits and dances. Both of them were homosexuals by the way. But they were good soldiers had a real good perspective on life. Never tried to bring their lifestyle to the kids and they were real, real good soldiers. And last time we went anywhere, we went to Selma. Hank Sanders and Rose Sanders invited us to Selma and we took the kids there to perform. I guess it was like ’75 or ’76 something like that. You know. And then we moved from… That’s when the incident we talking about the police begin to happen. You know the hangings and it was me. One of the officers had beat up Dino, had beat up Dino’s daddy. Dino was sergeant-at-arms in the organization and he kept the order in the meetings and they had beat up Dino’s dad real bad and the officer’s name was Roy Adams. So we got a petition together to have Roy Adams moved off Davis Avenue. So we took the petition down, had him transferred somewhere else. And this night in question, he stopped Secu and I and my oldest girl, she was like about three months at the time and her mom. They’ve since moved to Chicago. They lived in Chicago since that point to now, pretty much, you know other than coming down here to visit during the summer time. But Roy Adams stopped us that night. When he saw us he stopped “Uh, huh. What y’all doing over here?” “Minding our own business.” One word lead to another, you know. And he started trying to get rough you know so. One thing lead to another you know. … so I ran that way, Secu ran that way. And we were thinking like, he just gone about his business, you know. One of those incidents. But before we knowed anything, they had kind of like cornered off the entire area like they are really looking for some killers, you know. Somebody who had some murder cases and so they eventually found me in one of the vacant buildings. Jackson: Where was that at? Mani: Right behind Conti Street. The street that runs behind McDonalds. I think we were like two blocks down from McDonalds. We had went to visit, Barbara, my oldest girl’s mother brother was at in Louisiana at one of the colleges then and he played baseball and he was here. And he was staying with one of their kin people who lived down in that general area and we had just left their house. And the… we was in her daddy’s Chevrolet, a beige Chevrolet, an old Chevrolet. We always had trouble with the battery. The cable in it was loose. And we were trying to get a jump off, that’s what it was, we were trying to get a jump off when he pulled up. Yeah, what’s the problem? Need a jump off. And that’s how one thing lead to another. You know. And so he brought us. He took Secu back to the car. And they took me to a tree. Now the car is like, the tree is like parallel to the car like a “L”. They’re parked in front of the sidewalk sort of and the tree is like right here. So they can see what’s going on. And the guy said, “Niggers like you don’t live in this neighborhood. And get a tree, get a rope and let’s hang this nigger.” And I'm just thanking he was just talking you know. And we need all nigger babies to the alligators. You know. And they took me and walked me to the tree away from the car. The boy came back with a rope man wit a noose already in it. They threw it up in the tree and I’m talking noise you know. I guess I was making em more angry ‘cause I’m talking noise, like I got a army too, you know. And threw the rope in the tree and took the rope around my neck, two or three of em holding me like this, handcuffs behind my back and to the point where I’m on my tiptoes. And I could feel it cutting my air circulation off. And then everything got quiet and my daughter’s momma said plain clothed detectives had came on the scene. And pretty much told him, we’n hanging niggers tonight. Take em on down and book em for robbery. And they took Secu and I down and put us in a line up and they picked me out. Now he and I were supposed to had committed robbery together but three nights ago, four nights before this incident and they picked me out and didn’t pick him out. And but I was the only one in the lineup that had blood, had blood all over me from where they, I don’t know, I think I had on Black and white shirt, it was white in the front. You know, and I had dirt all in my hair from being up under the house, you know. And so I looked like somebody who had just been apprehended to make a long story short. And so he had, they got the manager to say it was me but they couldn’t get the assistant manager and one of the workers to say it was me. You know. So, they had the white manager to say it was me but the white assistant manager and the Black worker said it wasn’t me. Jackson: What store was that they said you robbed? Mani: It was a Church’s, it was a Hart’s Chicken on Dauphin Island Parkway. You know. And so I called the lawyer who was representing our organization at that time. His name was Clinton Brown. And I called Clinton …. I said, “and they tried to hang me man.” “Come on kids man, come on now. I said, come down here, you’ll see rope burns around my neck.” Clinton came down and he saw rope burns around my neck and then things begin to snowball from there. He contacted the FBI. Told the FBI he had seen the rope burns around my neck, the FBI came, saw it for themselves, they investigated the police vehicles that was on the scene that night. And found the rope still in the trunk of the patrolmen car. And when the found the rope in Officer Brown, one of the young officers, he just rolled over and started telling on everybody. From that they wind up indicted five of the officers, Wilbur Williams who ran for sheriff here recently, Vernon Strong, it’s been a long time since I… But those two names always stick in my head. Ronnie Patrick who took the fall. He was a fall guy. They said, he was the one who put the rope around my neck. And he was the only one who wind up getting kicked off the force. The rest of the guys wind up being promoted and moved up in ranks. They threw the charge out against me. We sued the city, you know, punitive damages. And about three years later, I think we settled for something like about 65, $75000, somewhere in the neighborhood. But all those guys are still on the force except Patrick. Patrick took the weight said he was the one who initiated everything. It was his idea. Charlie Braddick was district attorney then. I thought he was their attorney. The district attorney. And he got in there and ramped and raved about the officers are really good officers. Guys are playing dual roles or something. First he told my lawyer to tell me I shouldn’t come to court dressed so clean. We wear a shirt and tie everyday. I said, “Why?” I got to impress and they want me to come looking like a thug rather than coming looking like somebody with intelligence, you know. Not necessarily a shirt and tie give you that intelligent look but you can recognize uniforms. Police uniforms, shirt and tie is uniform. Anyway the guys got exonerated. All of them got exonerated. And I think they disciplined Patrick, they kicked him off the force. So, we moved Community Hall from the Avenue after they bought that property and we moved it to Hiway 45 right across from Moody’s restaurant. Nick Solomon had a TV repair shop there. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 8 min 25 sec 10 min 49 sec Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Casmarah Mani Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Casmarah Mani talks about changes in his community, the effects of desegregation, and race relations. Casmarah Mani talks about his time in prison, police corruption, and his lawsuit against the city for the attempt on his life by police officers. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Casmarah Mani National African American Archives & Museum Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interview Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VOHP-CasmarahMani-Community Casmarah Mani Charlie Braddick Clinton Brown community Davis Avenue desegregation education Hitler Jim Crow Keep the Community Hall lawsuit police officers police relations Prichard prisons race relations racism Ronnie Patrick Roy Adams Vernon Strong Wilbur Williams https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/3bcb44a5cc3aad61759263301bc31121.mp4 8b9fff1981993bcc19a5aeebce7af48b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Mobile, African American History Description An account of the resource Oral history interviews of elders in Mobile's African American communities. These items are clippings, and the full interviews are available for viewing at the Local History &amp; Genealogy division of the Mobile Public Library. A full listing of available interviews may be viewed <a href="http://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/items/show/2732">here</a>. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999-2002 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kern Jackson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interviews Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mobile-VOHP-Clips Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kern Jackson Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Mabel Dennison Location The location of the interview 811 St. Emanuel Street Mobile, AL 36603 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Jackson: Tell me this, what year was it that your grandmother came over on the Clotilda, and did your grandfather have anything to do with that? Dennison: My grandmother was brought over on the Clotilda in 1859. Now the story goes, my grandfather, people word things differently and they give a different significance of whatever… Jackson: His name was? Dennison: His name was James Dennison. My grandfather was named James Dennison. Now he was a Native American, born in Charleston, South Carolina. And he was sent over there on the ship, somebody was asking me, somebody made reference to him as a flagman or something else or whatever. But see there are things I would like to find out, things I would like to know how he actually got on the ship in the first place, how he came to be put aboard the ship. As someone told me that he had submitted himself to, and that I don’t know, see when people are not alive, you can only go by the things that some one has passed down from what they have said to somebody else, and especially to family members, because so many people have some many different opinions how something happened or how something came about, and when you can hear it from somebody, we sometimes say “from the horse’s mouth,” you know, that’s the best. And that’s one of the reasons I’m part of the oral history you see. People are trying to get their oral histories down. Jackson: But there was a unique relationship between your grandmother and your grandfather as a result of this Clotilde experience. And their experience with the Clotilde. Dennison: Well, I don’t know where they first met. Where they first saw each other, what happened or whatever. My grandmother did tell my older sisters and brothers that they tried to marry, she and my grandfather. Jackson: They who? Dennison: I don’t know if it was the Meahers or whomever. Cause the Meahers were in charge of things, see: captain of the ship and the Meahers. Jackson: So was James Dennison, was he enslaved? Dennison: Uh, I hate to be talking about this so much cause it’s in the book, but my grandfather had a card which states that he was born a slave in Charleston, South Carolina. Jackson: In Charleston. Dennison: In Charleston, South Carolina was where he was born, and he was sent over on the ship. But he nor the crew knew what they were going for. It’s this Wright company had the, they had people in charge of being supplied to ships for seagoing purposes. Now they didn’t know either where they were going. And that’s why they were trying mutiny on the ship when the found out what was happening, cause they knew, evidently they knew that slavery had been outlawed already, and they probably didn’t want to have any part of it. But, I’m assuming that, you know, by putting things together. The reason mutiny was attempted. But you know how it came about. There was a bet it could be done and that sort of situation. And the crew was, I don’t know if my father—my grandfather—ever received any reward, any restitution, or anything of that nature. I believe on the ship-forced labor or whatever, I don’t know. There are many things I don’t understand. I would like to travel to see if I could find some things to see if I could get things a little more complete. Jackson: Sure. Dennison: Because when you’re telling stories, historical stories, and most people not around to ask questions about how things happened or what they did and how it was done. They’re not around to answer your questions, so you just got to take what you’ve got, what you can get hold of to relate to. I’m trying to get pictures of my grandmother and my grandfather for sure, for certain. And I don’t know when that’ll happen. Now I’ve also seen a printed, a sheet out of the newspaper. I first saw this out in Chickasabogue Park, a little church house that was out there. They had renovated this little church house, and there were artifacts and different things, paraphernalia, put in this little church house as a museum. And after I started visiting things gradually started to disappear, cause some things I saw I wasn’t interested then. I had certain things I was trying to find, trying to relate. But later on as you see some things and as other subjects come up, or rather other things come to mind you begin to want to go farther, but it’s too late. There’s just some things it’s too late to come by and get hold of. But I would like to travel and find somebody who knows more about the situation who had some more pieces that I can put into the puzzle where I can know more about it. And having to do so many things I hadn’t been able to travel, and actually no way of getting around somewhere to show me this or that and whatever. It appears that many things have been hidden over the years over a while or something. It’s been difficult… Jackson: By whom? Dennison: Um, by um the people who knew about the circumstances, whomever they may be, whether it was the families or the slave masters’ families or whomever. That’s what I’d like to find out for sure before I make any comments as to who did what. Uh my, uh grandfather was intended to be put together to be married, seemingly in Mount Vernon—when they were enslaved in Mount Vernon; they were up there for a while. Now when those people were brought in on the ship, they weren’t all placed at the same place, they weren’t all put at the same place. Some of them Plateau, some of them carried to Selma. Jackson: Hale County… Dennison: Hale County. And see that’s why. Those things were done for the purpose of not being able to get together and everything. I believe that we have been fortunate to be in the same vicinity and get as much history as we can. If only some of the people, more of the other descendents would cooperate and tell what they know about their ancestors, you see. For me to take what you have and someone else to take what you have and that kind of thing, but it’s just, well you know, men have work. Although some may be the same situation. But there some differences in every circumstance, and that’s why I’d like to see other people give some information or99999 about their ancestors. My grandfather’s book was titled “Biography” – “Biographical Memoir of James Dennison.” My grandmother is “A Memoir of Lottie Dennison.” The way my people would pronounce it they would say Lottie all the time. Now on some of her documents, on some of her, Lottie Dennison’s paperwork her name is spelled “L-O-T-T-I-E” and sometimes its spelled “L-O-T-T-A.” So I don’t know if it’s the way she pronounced it or what. I understand that many of those people changed their names because they didn’t want people to actually know who they were or where they were from or what. I don’t know much about that either, I just happened to hear that and read a little bit about that. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 9 min 52 sec Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mabel Dennison Interview Clip Subject The topic of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Mabel Dennison talks about her book, including her grandparents, the Clotilde, and Africatown Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Mabel Dennison National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interview Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VOHP-MabelDennison-Book Africatown Clotilda Clotilda ship (last slave ship to the U.S.) Clotilde Mabel Dennison https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/26a21ecd2849dd9a90785b7345602d2d.mp4 8d41f979b58c76654527cc06aa029146 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Mobile, African American History Description An account of the resource Oral history interviews of elders in Mobile's African American communities. These items are clippings, and the full interviews are available for viewing at the Local History &amp; Genealogy division of the Mobile Public Library. A full listing of available interviews may be viewed <a href="http://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/items/show/2732">here</a>. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999-2002 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kern Jackson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interviews Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mobile-VOHP-Clips Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kern Jackson Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Olney Lucious Location The location of the interview 855 Allison Street Mobile, AL 36617 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Jackson: What was your first gig or your first job here in Mobile playing? Lucious: My first night job, first job, like playing music? Jackson: Yes, sir. Lucious: Oh, first job playing music was with, they all dead now, it was a five-piece combo. We all were practically learning. We, we knew something bout all right but we, we didn’t know that much but we knew just enough to get by that we made some bad cards or bad tunes or something like that. We probably knew it, would correct it if we knew, if we didn’t, we just got down with it. [Laughter] Jackson: What was the name of that combo? Lucious: The song? Jackson: No, the, the group that you played with what was the name of it? Lucious: Oh, now the first group, the first group I ever played with was a was kind of a nonexperienced, didn’t have all that experience we just got together and make noise. We got paid for it. It was Walter Thompson’s, you wouldn’t anything about, Walter Thompson And His Matadors I believe it was. But anyway, the boy’s name is Walter Thompson. Yeah, he’s dead and gone and everybody else along with me that I know of isn’t still living. Wasn’t but five of us what you call a combo when it was small like that, 5 or 6 of you. But that been a long time ago you see when I first started playing music ‘round when I first come out of school. See when I first come out of school, I was around 20 years old or something like that, 19, 20, 21 or something like that. I didn’t know too much but I knew enough to get by like, like Nuckie, his name was Walter Thompson but we called him “Nuckie”. He knew more than any of us. He was kinda the leader of the band. He was a little smarter than the rest of us. But I quit him after I, I was started to, I started to going up. I started moving up just like that. See every time somebody was, was learning me playing bout the way I doing on that banjo. They said, “well, if you, if you, if you wanna make a change we got a place for you. We got a chair for you in our band.” Jackson: What were some of the bands you played for? Lucious: This boy was one, Walter Thompson and His Matadors, that was one. Wilson Red Hot, I don’t know if you ever heard of him or not, that was two and the most, the band with the, was the most anchored band I ever played in was Melody Masters. Now you talking bout a band. Every band would come through here wouldn’t wanna come back here anymore when they heard us. And then, and then sometimes they don’t wanna come through and get what they call a double rush with us. Jackson: A double rush. Lucious: Yeah. Jackson: What’s a double rush? Lucious: A double rush? A double rush is when two bands are playing together the same night in the same place. See and what the really called they self doing is kind of, vying and vying with each. One, one trying to out play the other and all that old kind of stuff, you know. See especially if you got a good reputation. Now it takes some bands with a pretty good reputation to call themselves double rush. Some bands gon double rush and ain’t got know reputation behind ‘em and somebody find out, “well, who gon come here, I don’t know nothing about them guys. I don’t know about ‘em. You ain’t gon have no, you’n gon hardly have nobody at your affairs. But if it somebody come to you like Days of Old. Somebody say when uh, Duke Ellington man, they double rushing with old uh, what's this other guy name used to dancing and hollering [he hums a Cab Calloway tune]. Jackson: Oh uh…. Lucious: You know what I'm talking about [ he hums a Cab Calloway tune]. Jackson: Mitty the Moocher. Ah, Cab Calloway. Lucious: Yeah, Cab Calloway. Now when somebody, when you say, you double rushing between Cab Calloway and Duke Ellington, you can’t hardly get in the place. See. Jackson: Uh, huh. Lucious: But it seldom happened but it did happen. Jackson: In Mobile too? Lucious: No, that didn’t happen in Mobile but they came through here on singles. Cab Calloway would come through Mobile on his own. Duke Ellington would come through here to Mobile on his own. Eddie Hayward, I worked with Eddie Hayward while he was here. Now, the Ms. What-you-call-it can tell you all you wanna know about me and Eddie Hayward. Jackson: Who’s that? Lucious: Ms, Ms. Hortence, what’s her name? Pauline… Jackson: Oh, Ms. Paul…. Horton. Lucious: Paulette Horton, yeah. ‘Cause she got the whole history of it too, you see. When he, when he came through here, I was strutting my stuff then. Jackson: No kidding. Lucious: Yeah, I was strutting my stuff. I knew music and I would write and all read it. I got stuff around here that I wrote, transposing and everything for the band what the band could play in the key that we could play better in. See if a piece was written in a piece, if a piece was written in a certain note, in a certain key and the band can’t, can’t can’t do so much with it. In that key I’ll say, “Five flats.” And everybody know that five flat, that’s five flats in “D” for signature is a “D”. That’s for an ackward key to play in too. Jackson: Tell me where did, where did the Melody Masters play? What kind of venues, what kind of places, what kind of halls did y’all play in in Mobile? Lucious: Oh they, man they played in some of everywhere you, you would give an affair. Jackson: Tell me some of ‘em. Lucious: Played Fort Whiting. You ever heard of Fort Whiting now? Jackson: Yes, sir. Lucious: All right, they played at the Columbus, Columbia, Columbus Hall I guess that’s Catholic building on Government Street. And we just played, lined up all the time up here at Gomez Auditorium. And ah… Jackson: The Elks, you ever played at the Elks? Lucious: Elks, yeah, Elks down on State Street. And ah… Jackson: ILA? Lucious: Who? Jackson: The ILA Hall? Lucious: Yeah, ILA too. Yeah on Davis Avenue all those places and not, not and not only we went to, went to New Orleans played down there, a club down there, it was a Colored club at that time, I forgot the name of it. It’s a rich club, man, one that make a lot of money. It’s on Iberville where, you ever heard of Iberville, that’s where… That clubhouse, one of the beautiful clubhouse, now that was years ago. I don’t know whether it’s still in business or not. All those large places cause I, there’s a picture of our band over there. Jackson: Yeah, I saw that picture. Lucious: Oh, you did. Jackson: Who were some of the members, can you name some of ‘em? Lucious: Yeah, I remember all of em. Now I can put some only one person in there is living besides me. Jackson: Who’s that? Lucious: Ms. Olivia Rivers. Jackson: Piano player? Lucious: Yeah, she, she Ms. Olivia Rivers, she’s downtown, she’s on Ann and Basil, the only two-story house in that block in the area right in there. And that’s her home. Her husband died and left her that home. Nice place. Two-story place. Her name is Rivers and she can play some organ and she can play some piano and that was a group that didn’t bother nobody that came in here or out of here. Jackson: No kidding. Lucious: When they comes here, just telling you, I’m telling you the truth. I’m not bragging because I played with ‘em but I played with em for years and I, and they had top notch musicians and I’m not saying because I happen to be a member. I was glad to be a member that, a group like that that carried that kind of a reputation. Jackson: Who were some of the other people in the band? Lucious: Fred Jackson was one, he was a school teacher over here at Owens. Jackson: Uh, huh. A. F. Owens school. Lucious: A. F. Owens, yeah. He would, he could write that stuff. We could, we had folks of us could write that stuff. I wasn’t the only one that said could write that stuff. Fred Jackson and Millers Holmes. I don’t know whether you remember, Millers Holmes he was a old timer around Mobile here too. And I hear you say something about Lang being related to you. Seem like to me one of them Langs used to be, used to be a postman, I know him well. But anyway, I’m trying to, Olivia, she was the only lady and it was 13 of us. Twelve men and that one lady. And it was 13 of us. And we had 3 changes of uniforms. Jackson: Tell me about ‘em. Lucious: Well, we had, we had tuxes you know, because we played for balls. We played a lot of balls. Jackson: Who, who were some of the balls you played? Lucious: Oh, we played just about all of the, the Comrades, the some of ‘em I can’t call the name right off hand, I… Jackson: Utopians? Lucious: Who? Jackson: Utopians Ball? The Utopians Ball? That sound familiar? Lucious: I didn’t quite hear you. Jackson: Utopians. Lucious: Oh, yeah, Utopians yeah. Utopians and that was one of the main ones, Alec Herman’s bunch. Sure. I just it slipped it remembrance now ‘cause it been so long so long ago. Alec Herman and we played for his group and then we played for oh a bunch of ‘em now. Alfred Davis, let me see, what is Alfred Davis’ group. Oh, but I can’t call the names. Jackson: That’s all right. Lucious: See. What’s this boy that just died here, buried him here, The Comrades. We used to play with them, their ball. Ah, now what’s his name. Jackson: Richardson? Lucious: Richardson, yeah. Oscar Richardson. We used to play for their balls. And Alec Herman and Dr. Russell, Dr. Russell was Utopian. See, he was, he the member or the Utopian. That was easy… Jackson: Did you know any of the people in the brass bands? Lucious: Brass band? Jackson: Yeah, you ever heard of brass band like the Eureka Brass Band or the Excelsior Brass Band? Lucious: Yeah, yeah, I knew all of them fellows when they… I’m a turn some heat on. Where were we? Jackson: We’re talking about the Eureka Brass Band and the Excelsior Brass Band. Lucious: Oh, yeah the Excelsior Brass Band. Yeah, now Eureka, they played out before the Excelsior. The Excelsior lasted a long time. They life lasted them a long time. Well, they played for about every all the Mardi Gras parades even if it was White parades and all. Jackson: But the Eureka played out? Lucious: Yeah, yeah, Eureka didn’t… They had a good band while they were going but something, I don’t know what happened. Maybe they all died out or something or other. Jackson: Who did Mr. Besteda play with? Lucious: Besteda? Jackson: The trombonist. Lucious: That was my cousin. Jackson: That was your cousin. Lucious: Yeah, he played with the Melody Masters. We all played together. He’s right up there on the picture. Jackson: No kidding. Lucious: He and I both right up there. And he was and believe me and I’m not saying because he was cousin. But he could play ‘cause he got his training at Tuskegee too. Jackson: So a lot of y’all got your training at Tuskegee. Lucious: Yeah, a lot of us did. Jackson: Isn’t that a blessing. Lucious: Sure did. Especially musicians, you know. Jackson: Yes. Lucious: See so Mr. Besteda got his training right up there at Tuskegee and he died right out here at this nursing home out here on Halls Mill Road. Jackson: How about the E. B. Coleman Band? Lucious: E. B. I know E. B. Coleman. E. B. Coleman got a good band too. He’s always had a good band, he got a big band. He usually carry a big band around 12 to 14 pieces and all like that see. And he’s got good musicians in his band. Now some instances, his fellows I didn’t teach ‘em but I have taught some of their offsprings. Like this boy, a lot of ‘em fellows. My memory, my memory is just short now, you know when you get old your memory get short and you can’t remember things like you used to. What’s that boy name, his mother and father died here not long ago. He played trumpet with E. B. I taught his, his, his 2 boys and one of ‘em turned sour on the family by taking stuff, taking that dope and stuff. Jackson: Right. Lucious: I don’t know if you would remember that case or not. Jackson: Uh, uh. Lucious: But that’s what happened. So E. B. has got, he has a good thing Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 13 min 11 sec Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Olney Lucious Interview Clip Subject The topic of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Olney Lucious talks about his experiences as a musician in Mobile Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Olney Lucious National African American Archives & Museum Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interview Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VOHP-OlneyLucious-MusicBands A.F. Owens Cab Calloway Duke Ellington E.B. Coleman Excelsior Band Gomez Auditorium ILA Hall mardi gras Mardi Gras ball Melody Masters Mobile music band Olivia Rivers Walter Thompson Walter Thompson and his Matadors https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/e083b364e83e59610edb4eebf063cc2b.mp4 bc88cf195384bf351dfea5defc6a718d https://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/files/original/94e337faf69606ebe5be76de7c6c6a6c.mp4 e58cb69ad1b5e4d91eb3d11ad6aab889 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Mobile, African American History Description An account of the resource Oral history interviews of elders in Mobile's African American communities. These items are clippings, and the full interviews are available for viewing at the Local History &amp; Genealogy division of the Mobile Public Library. A full listing of available interviews may be viewed <a href="http://digital.mobilepubliclibrary.org/items/show/2732">here</a>. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999-2002 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kern Jackson Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interviews Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mobile-VOHP-Clips Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kern Jackson Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Martha West Davis Location The location of the interview 564 Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Avenue Mobile, AL 36603 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Jackson: Now tell me about your grandfather. Davis: Okay. Jackson: Or his story. Davis: You mean Cudjo? Okay Cudjo was a very active man. He didn’t believe in passivity. He was always doing something, and he was very, very friendly. He had several friends that were white people. One in particular was Alex Zoghby’s on Dauphin Street. Another great friend of his was Charles Ethler. He was the first Baptist evangelist in the states of the United States, in California. So Charles9999 would come to him sometimes on a visit and spend a whole day just visiting Cudjo. And he was a very good friend of my great-grandfather. And I regret that I was too small to hear what he was saying, but he would talk to my grandad and wed look up at him, you know up—they were tall people—and try to understand what they were talking about. And he also said that Cudjo was a wonderful man, and he just enjoyed spending money to travel from California just to see him and talk with him, and read the Bible to him. In other words, my grandfather could not read, but whenever his friends whom he trusted would come, he’d always ask them to at least say the passage. And he would listen and he would explain what they said. He had good memory, and I think that he did quite well not being able to read. And he would always relate certain passages that he said. Jackson: What did your grandaddy do for a living? Davis: My grandaddy farmed for a living. He farmed the entire area from the Bay Bridge entrance there on the highway back to Yorktown Baptist Church was a vast area. Very large plot of land. Jackson: If you can go back in your memory and remember your granddaddy and grandmama’s house, tell me about it. Davis: Okay. First we moved from in the middle of the street there, there’s the cutoff. And then our house my grandmother’s house was a very large house—about eight rooms. We had long shutters, now they are called Venetian blinds but we had wooden shutters that would pull down, and you could see all through the streets there. And when we moved from that house our grandfather built his house in the back of our house. This was seventy-five years we lived there. It was made out of the old-fashioned pinewood. He also added a porch there, and it made his house look like a big place. They had a fence around it with lots of shrubbery. Course he farmed; you could see he was a farmer cause he filled the entire area with vegetables, with food to feed people because there was no need of him trying to preserve the food. It was too vast. I believe in my estimation he fed about five thousand people during his lifetime. At least five thousand or more cause he gave away what he raised, the food products. Jackson: What did your grandfather tell you about his journey to America? Davis: Well, as a little girl, about three and a half years old, I can recall he said it was a long ride, and they had limited, food was very limited. They had very little water, and it was a very crowded condition. I also remember him saying that if they saw a ship coming toward the schooner he was riding was sailing on, they were told to tuck their heads down in a position that would not tell people someone was on board the schooner. So they were always trained to hide. It was an illegal trip. In fact he said they forced. He said one night they were, I suppose, going to bed in the villages, and there were two kings that were arguing, or rather they almost went into a state of mutiny. They were fighting because of one reason, because Cudjo’s king, Dahomey had a good production. He had more food that would feed the people in the village than King Taika, so Taika got angry and they had this gentleman, a tall gentleman, I won’t call the name to help to capture the village as much as they could: a fairly large number of people. So they got on this ship not knowing where their sisters and brothers were. So in our case, in my family, my grandaddy left his mother and father in the village, and he had no control because they were forced to get on the ship Clotilde and sail to America. There was no chance of saying, “I don’t want to go. Where am I going?” But they only could say, “ I’m going to a new land, a New World.” So he came to America after seventy days of voyage, the duration of seventy days. Jackson: How old were you when your grandfather passed? Davis: I was in the, it might have been the middle school. After grade four I think, or something like that because I recall having seen him before he passed away after going to school every day. One morning I carried him some, what it’s called, cream of wheat, but grandpa called it gruel because that was the name he could say, I says gruel. He said it’s 9999, it made out of corn, your fine corn. And the fact that I was walking very fast one morning, I turned the bowl of gruel or cream of wheat over on my right wrist, and I bear the scar now where the hot cereal turned over. And I came back to my grandmother’s house, and I told her what I had done. She said don’t cry, it’s going to be okay you know what grandmother’s always say. But I wanted the chance of being a little maid, you know I want to care for grandaddy cause I always loved him so much, but that was one of my little hurts I had to endure. And I see the scar everyday on my arm, but it’s a scar I appreciate because I had a chance to be a little nurse for my grandpa. Jackson: Now I understand, I’m not the first person to come along and interview member of your family. Could you tell me something about that? Davis: No, you really are not the first one in the nineties, but I believe that before now there were people who called in and asked the Press Register here downtown in Mobile how to go out there and get some interviews. I don’t know who they were, but I was always told that one lady named Zora Neale Hurston came in a long time ago and interviewed my grandpa. Another lady also came; I forget her name right now. But I understand there were two people who wrote books on grandpa, and that the books were sold. Some books are still saved or reserved in the library here on reference shelves—that you can’t take out. So my family has one book, our private book. It has the same story, the same style that the first book that he was ever interviewed, has the same format. Course they are trying to change that, but I prefer having the old, old draft because it tells the real true story. Lot of people are making stories, I mean fiction, that’s okay with me it’s fine, but the genuine thing is what we need to preserve: that the truth, more or less the truth. And that’s what I really can appreciate, the little story of Kazula. Jackson: When I came in this morning, and we met this morning, you told me about something I had never heard about and that was a cooling board. What is a cooling board? Davis: Yes, I thought perhaps you had heard of it. Anyway, the cooling board system is when grandpa, Kazula, would take a family member out to a place it’s called Pennsylvania, Alabama. It’s going north, northeast. This is a friend he knew in Mobile, Alabama here. Her name was Aunt Sally, and she was a very good friend of grandpa’s, Kazula. So one Sunday we went, we had a Burgender, another car was a Plymouth. WE had two cars, two-car garage, and so grandpa dressed with a high hat on and a black silk suit to see Aunt Sally. But she was outside on the porch on what is called a cooling board or wood, a piece of wide wood, she was dressed as if she was dead, had expired. So everybody was along, because her son thought she had, thought his mother had passed along. She really was in a comatic state so Aunt Sally really wasn’t dead; she was in a coma. Jackson: When you do your work here as a docent, explaining and interpreting Africatown, what are some of the things you like to highlight about Africatown? Davis: I like mostly to think of the thing that my grandfather had as a person who did not have any enmity against his travel, which he could not avoid, and how he would relate to blacks and whites. There was no color line. He said many times that he loved everybody: race creed or color was a not a matter. He was happy to be in America and to have a family. And so I think he was a man who did not hold anything against his travel. He was just happy to be alive, to have survived. I am happy to know myself that he had no broken parts of his body. He had normal arms and normal eyes; he never wore eyeglasses. He never had a tooth pulled. He had no diseases. He only had a long duration of lifetime, longevity because when he expired he was a healthy man. He walked upright. He was very free. He was not afraid to talk to people. So I believe he was one of the most normal men I’ve ever seen, to have had such trials, such hard deprivation to come to a new land called America. Jackson: Do you know where your grandfather is buried? Davis: Yes, I certainly do. I know the spot and I always have a vision of just how I looked at that hole there, and saw him being lowered down, never to see him again. It is one of my most misunderstood moments in my lifetime, to have him to be covered. I remember him very well. Jackson: How was it a misunderstood moment? Davis: Well, I really did not want him to pass because I did not know enough about him as to… have him to… but he held my hand many times he talked to us. But I didn’t have enough long time with him as I’d hoped to have. He lived more about a hundred and twenty. But he passed that age where he had to leave us. It was almost, it was a very good moments of lamentation. Everybody was just saying why, why; such a good man loved people, fed people. Even, in fact I understand that my grandmother said one time that he loaned the money what he had to people, and he was never paid back. And this was a true fact, and I wondered why people sometimes took advantage of him. He had lots of artifacts there. In fact he had a beautiful gold walking cane, not a curved one, but a beautiful round cylinder-type. It was taken out, confiscated. He had lots of jewelry that Zora Neale Hurston gave him that was taken out. Lots of things were taken. People would come there, not knowing to us, in the morning-time, kinda early. We watched them very carefully, but sometimes you just can’t watch everybody who comes from different sides. In the back part of your house you can’t see. But we kept watch on grandpa, I mean as much as we could. We really loved him very dearly. But we noticed that a lot of his personal things were taken. I remember having tried on a fur shoe. My feet was very tiny. One shoe would make two 99999 on each side of it. I had a very small foot. He said you can’t wear those; they’re too large; they’re made directly in Africa. Beautiful fur shoes: I tried those on. Jackson: Where’s he buried? What’s the name of the place? Davis: It’s the Plateau Cemetery. Plateau Cemetery originally. The first site. There are two sites now. The cemetery now is combined into the old part and the new part which enters on the Chin road. It goes east and west; it’s on the very edge. Cont. Jackson: What are some of the most significant things that have happened in the history of Africatown, USA and Plateau? Davis: Well I think, to me, I would say my granfather’s eulogistic services where my mother lost her temper, because when he expired, she wanted him to be in this facility where he dedicated and was hired gave his life for the people in his church. Few days, what he did, but then the time he expired that Friday evening, July 28, 1935, he was sort of a misunderstanding about where to put him until the funeral on Monday morning. So my grand, my mother Angela told the mortician, that’s Johnson-Allen that she wanted my granfather to be viewed in the church for three days and three night because she thought there were people coming from abroad, which they did, to view his body. So it was time for the new pastor to come in for his conference, and election. And there was a disagreement about that, so my grandmother told Dr. Allen, Dr. Johnson-Allen, that is she didn’t, if they didn’t put him in there, and she desired, because he deserved the honor, that she would carry my grandpa on her shoulders, and I knew that was, could happen. So they agreed to her that they’d put her in there to rest three days and nights. But that was a matter of honoring someone who had given their life to the whole community. I thought she was not out of order to have said she wished her grandfather, I mean, yes, granddaddy to be laid there. I mean put to rest, and it’s three days. It wouldn’t have hurt anything or any meeting or any sort of conference that was going to be held for election of the pastor, pastorship. So that was maybe sort of….What I didn’t understand was why he couldn’t stay there. I mean in the lying there, because that was his lifestyle, the church. He was a custodian there along with my mother, she traced behind him as a little girl and she was playing with brooms and mops the floor with the creative mops they had. She would clean the spittoons, she was would wash the lanterns lights, and they worked hard with that building, that placed where he downed the pine trees. But they didn’t want him there, they wanted him to be shipped in, I mean pulled in there and pulled out. She said, no, don’t disturb his body. Once he is still, he will be still till we have his services. So she won. My mother was very, very up and up. She didn’t take any low-back when she was right. She said she knew she was right about having him lay in rest there, because he was an honorable man. So my mother won. Jackson: Miss Woods, Miss Lorna Woods once told me about the services that she heard later her family stories about how the descendents of the Clotilde would hold prayer meetings during the week, not just on Sunday. Davis: Yes. Jackson: Tell me about that please. Davis: Well it was a sort of tradition that everybody there that everybody was so centered around pleasing, I guess you might say doing things that was right, and having good morals, and success, as you know Plateau came a long ways from a log cabin church to a brick building now. This is the third church. My grandfather helped to build…they hewed down the trees in order to make a place for worship, so they, we had those early prayer meetings and prayer times, where we’s be praying and asking god for help because there was no other source that we could, that they could seek other than from praying and asking god to provide better jobs for black people because most of the jobs there was maids or even lower than maids you know. People had to do, I mean sawmill. Women had to use those, hot things at the Ben Archer plant. They worked women and men there. Not just men, the women worked there too, they had to make shingles and things for the houses and did heavy work there. But it was just the way of life they had to do. Jackson: Tell me more about some sawmills and those women. Davis: Okay. Jackson: If you could, in your mind’s eye go back and describe what it was like for them, and what kind of work was that, in addition to all their other responsibilities? Davis: Yes, for me, as far as I can understand, being a small, like a teenager, I remember a lady named like Mrs. Alice Goodtress, of one the ladies who worked there. Others too. They had to actually stand for hours before eating, taking a break. It wasn’t a cool place to work; it was hot. The building was not very comfortable. They had to work. This building, I believe had a large production that it put out, I’m sure it did because it was the only plant that was available. Jackson: What did they wear? Davis: They wore the regular cotton dresses. It was no slacks so they had to wear dresses, and I imagine the flat shoes and they, perhaps they had to have the windows open, where those big wide windows would get air, and those big fans, because the building was so hot. Jackson: And their hair? Davis: They had just regular; they didn’t tie up their hair. They had just hair just ordinary pressed or whatever style they wanted braided or what have you. But the condition was very, very hot. It was not very comfortable. It was the only plant that supplied money, as far as economics were concerned there. It was called the Ben Archer Plant. It stayed open for years and years and years. And the men had the heavy metal, ironwork to do. They were welding, but it was not the most convenient type of welding. It was severe. It was heavy. Jackson: Were they paid fairly for their work? Davis: I would say it was not the max; just for survival, just for survival. Lots of folks had little outside jobs they had. They sold vegetables and some had what you call maids outside. Like on Saturday they worked certain jobs like that. It was a time, was time people really had to work hard to survive. Course the cost of things were not as high as they are now. Course not. But what you had to work for, I mean you really had to work hard to get it. Jackson: now these folks, what, you were talking about church… Davis: Yes. Jackson: What other things brought them joy? Davis: Well we had what’s called picnics, Annual Picnics, that was in the Creole town, Mount Louis Island. It was an island that was discovered after people learned to get the joy of swimming and of perhaps a half-sail or saith of ocean or water surface of level land. This land I suppose, a person saw having recreation could benefit this land, down there. You could sell drinks, and the pop and the ice cream, and what have you, and candies and what you call popcorns, and make a little vendor’s service out like in New York City. So they opened this for a business for a family enterprise. So when they did this, everbody learned about Mount Louis Island. They would go down in buses. Every church then got the idea of having a picnic at Mount Louis Island. And they would make appointments, dates to have a church come on certain dates, and they had big trucks loads of people. Some had cars. And it was a fun-type thing. One of the thing that I regret when I was a little girl about ten, we were down there, a young man name Peter Mills was drowning. We usually count the children on the picnic bus or cars, but we were told not to go where this flag was because it was high water. And so I don’t know what happened to this young man, he was bout twelve like we were. He went beyond this signal sign, and time to call names and come back to the church. We had been standing count out. We could not find him. His mother and daddy were very dedicated church people. The Hunters. His mother’s name Mrs. Goldie Hunter. And she lost her son Peter. He was only twelve, and he was never found again. We searched and searched and they left him there in the water. But the tides were very high. They were coming in I suppose, and he couldn’t swim, so he went past this signal, and he was drowned. Jackson: What did the adults do at Mount Louis island? Davis: On Mondays? Well most of the churches had what you call missionary meetings on Mondays. Jackson: No, no, no. I mean what did the grown folks do when you went to the picnics? What kind of activities did they do? Davis: Oh yes. They would watch the kids, number one. They had their own baskets, what do you call it, their own booths where they had the food there. It’s a booth, like a table with food on it. And they had the ice cream packed with ice. The children had their own family ice cream, their own creative ice cream. They had punch and stuff, and they made sandwiches and some barbecue. They barbecued meat. They barbecue the whole day. And they had this place called the little music hall department there. They had, they were allowed to play the box deal. I think it was called the Rock-ola box there. They put a quarter in there and it would play certain songs. You know okay with the church superintendent, and the girls had fun there and the boys had fun. We’d go in bathing and come out bathing and everyone would watch them. There was a division there of course because they were church people. But it was fun. That was one of the main things they had for a yearly recreation there. Go to Mount Louis Island; they were Creole people who banded to the other end and founded this enterprise and swimming area for 9999 and what have you to come there. The result of recreation fun. Jackson: That’s interesting. I always wanted to know: What exactly is a Creole? Davis: Well, from what I can understand, it is a type of people who must have the same blood type in order to, when they want to produce children, they have to have the same blood type. In other words they can’t mix. The colors varies from very dark hair, yellow skin, some have blond hair mixed with sandy appearance. But it’s not black; it’s not white. It’s the mixture of just the Creole children that came from the beginning of the Creole wherever it started. It could have started in New Orleans or Pensacola. But mostly it’s French. It comes from the French services. And they migrated here, and they then began to produce siblings. And it grew and grew to families. Jackson: Were there any social clubs or any, uh, Federated Women’s Club or anything like that in Plateau? Davis: It started later. Dr. Benjamin F. Baker after his expiration, they built this Benjamin F. Baker Federated Club. Ladies who want to go into groups and have weddings there, banquets. It’s on Catherine Street, there, it’s existing now, but it was after Dr. Baker expired. But it’s functional now. You can have wedding there, receptions there. It’s open now for the public; it’s still open. Jackson: You talk about your grandfather frequently. Could you please say a few words about the importance of history? Davis: I think that it should be reserved forever. I don’t think it should ever be frozen because of how they came here and why they came here. Jackson: They who? Davis: The descendents. I mean the native from Benin, Africa and west Ghana: Cudjo, Paulette Allen, Charlie Zuma, J.B, Shade, and Ecola Dennison, and Clara Turner which is called Yabashi, and Zuma Levinson which was a Topbar. All the other of the nine were Takars. And those folks should not be frozen. They should be studied. There were people, and they have done great things here. Had it not been for the African-Americans here, I suppose all this food would not have been produced, because the land was not productive. It was a just a wilderness when they came here. They worked very hard. Jackson: Was it their own land? Davis: No, this land was given by the Maehers. Jackson: it was given to them? Davis: Yes, Cudjo… Jackson: They owned it? Davis: No, this was given to them by the Maehers. Jackson: How did they work that out? Davis: It was, I suppose, because you know I wasn’t born at the time, bear in mind. But I suppose like any other transaction that was done in that time, that type of transaction, drafting policies and documents, they had more than they could handle. I suppose and I say it from my heart, land, you can’t, you can’t walk over the Earth I mean in one day. So it was just, am I right? lots of land that was just there, barren land so they had nowhere to stay. So it was given to my grandad, Kazula, so he shared the land and gave as much as he could. And he gave the land to be productive. He cleared the land, and he worked very hard with nails that were on the wood in the log truck, log cabin church, a place to worship in and a conference house down in the stand by my brother, Melvin whose 9999. But they had a conference house, like a little shack outside from the original wooden church where they would assemble. Whenever someone didn’t agree with what Cudjo said, they’d all get together and agree. It seemed like Cudjo was their spokesman. He was not the chief or anything, but he was so agreeable, so understanding that we gotta survive, and we must work together. Jackson: did you know any of the other people beside your grandfather who came off the Clotilda? Davis: Only the Dennisons. I didn’t know Equlla’s great-grandmother, but I knew the family after the next generation under her. We used to visit them on Sundays. But I didn’t know anybody else, because they were, they were deceased. Jackson: Are there any other stories about the Clotilde Africans that you are aware of now? Davis: Repeat that. Jackson: Are there any other stories about the Clotilde Africans that you are aware of, other than your grandfather? Davis: No, the only thing that I was not too pleased about is that people are drafting or drawing or sketching, whatever you want to call it—I’m an artist also, I’m a true artist—they are sketching the ship Clotilde. But it’s not the Clotilde, it’s what’s left, the remnants of the Clotilde. The real Clotilde has been wrecked. How can you draw a wrecked picture of what’s not there anymore? So I would say it is like it looks. You can’t make a ship when it’s burned up. So I disagree with someone saying, ‘You should have a replica or you should have a scenario.’ But you can’t because the ship was destroyed because it was illegal. So what are you going to do, do some thing that’s false? So I don’t agree with having any replica of the ship. I mean, what’s left, leave it there and lodge it. Because the real ship will never be anymore. It’s gone forever. Jackson: Were there any sayings by any of your grandparents that you remember? Davis: Yes, my granfather Kazula had one thing he stressed most dearly, as we could understand it. He said he was disappointed someone would take something, and more so if he would recognize it was gone. He would always say this as a daily word and like his prayer, he said, “if you” and he used the word “L-I-E”, lie. He said, “if you tell a lie, you will steal.” He was bitterly against, he forbade us to say, “I didn’t do it,” if we did it. We pull a twig down from the cherry tree, he said it you did it, you tell me you did it. He did not want you to tell a false. He was a very hard man on truthfulness, and he didn’t like for you to do things that’s not right. He said whatever you want, you ask for it. That’s why most of his artifacts were stolen because people got away with things such as his gold walking cane, his fur shoes, his jewelries, and lots of things. They came in pairs or groups into him, but they really took a lot of things from his house. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 11 min 53 sec ; 16 min 24 sec Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Martha West Davis Interview Clips Subject The topic of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Martha West Davis talks about her grandfather, Cudjo Lewis, the Clotilde, Cudjo's funeral, Mon Louis Island, the Plateau Community, etc. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Martha West Davis National African American Archives & Museum Museum of Mobile Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mobile Tricentennial Video Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available National African American Archives & Museum, Museum of Mobile Mobile Public Library, Local History & Genealogy Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1999 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history interview Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VOHP-MarthaWestDavis-CudjoLewis Clotilda ship (last slave ship to the U.S.) Clotilde creole Cudjoe 'Kazoola' Lewis farm life Martha West Davis Mon Louis Island Plateau Cemetery